AZGF to ban salt/baiting

[Nontypical183]

Game and fish is here to manage wildlife populations if they issue me a tag as long as another humans life is not endangered i should as a free american be able to use that tag how i see fit whether over bait or a mile away with a 50 cal my choice.

[LAR DOG]

Hunters are typically their own worst enemies. Take for example throwing the game across the hood of their truck and parading down main street before driving home. The anti-hunters loved that. How long did it take for hunters to wise up to that? Baiting and using trail cameras to photo game, then posting your photos on websites like this one while the game is living. Then posting the photos of the same game after harvest is equivalent to throwing them over the hood of your truck.

 

Or all those posts so far this year of wounded game not being recovered. Then found days or weeks later, only to be claimed for the antlers. Trophy Hunters by name only give a negative tone to hunting. Advertising wounded game recovered for the rack is bad publicity for hunting

 

And, why where so many of us up in arms about guides using ultralight aircraft to spot game then radio down to guides with clients a number of years back? Was that really any different then baiting? Maybe baiting should only be allowed for a certain time period and one has to stop say a month prior to the first opening season.

 

Are trail cameras on public lands an invasion of an individuals rights? Maybe all those trail cameras are disappearing due to someone not wanting to be photographed when scouting water holes on public lands. What about trail cameras only being allowed to be used two weeks prior to opening day?

 

I guess what I am trying to say is we need to do a better job policing ourselves. Then maybe we won't be policed by others so much. We give Game and Fish direction in which they lean by our actions.

 

WELL SAID THATS Y I HANG OUT ON THE PORN SITES, MUCH MORE FUN

[elkrack]

Hunters are typically their own worst enemies. Take for example throwing the game across the hood of their truck and parading down main street before driving home. The anti-hunters loved that. How long did it take for hunters to wise up to that? Baiting and using trail cameras to photo game, then posting your photos on websites like this one while the game is living. Then posting the photos of the same game after harvest is equivalent to throwing them over the hood of your truck.

 

Or all those posts so far this year of wounded game not being recovered. Then found days or weeks later, only to be claimed for the antlers. Trophy Hunters by name only give a negative tone to hunting. Advertising wounded game recovered for the rack is bad publicity for hunting

 

And, why where so many of us up in arms about guides using ultralight aircraft to spot game then radio down to guides with clients a number of years back? Was that really any different then baiting? Maybe baiting should only be allowed for a certain time period and one has to stop say a month prior to the first opening season.

 

Are trail cameras on public lands an invasion of an individuals rights? Maybe all those trail cameras are disappearing due to someone not wanting to be photographed when scouting water holes on public lands. What about trail cameras only being allowed to be used two weeks prior to opening day?

 

I guess what I am trying to say is we need to do a better job policing ourselves. Then maybe we won't be policed by others so much. We give Game and Fish direction in which they lean by our actions.

 

well said

[Traveler]

Here is the letter I am sending to AZGDF and everyone else I can think of... I have plagerized some good points of Steven Ward and others and hope that you all find lots in here to use in your own letters feel free to copy and paste the whole thin if you like....

 

 

To whom it may concern,

 

As a 37 year resident..... of the great state of Arizona, and having spent nearly ½ my life in the outdoors in some way shape or form, I wish to convey my opinions in regards to the proposed Article 3 rule change. I am opposed to this rule change, I am opposed to the verbiage, and I am disappointed in the group that is pushing this open ended and discriminatory agenda, and here is why:

 

The Facts....

 

 

Thanks for this. I plagiarized the majority of your comments and included it in mine.

 

Dan

[huntlines]

Hunters are typically their own worst enemies. Take for example throwing the game across the hood of their truck and parading down main street before driving home. The anti-hunters loved that. How long did it take for hunters to wise up to that? Baiting and using trail cameras to photo game, then posting your photos on websites like this one while the game is living. Then posting the photos of the same game after harvest is equivalent to throwing them over the hood of your truck.

 

Or all those posts so far this year of wounded game not being recovered. Then found days or weeks later, only to be claimed for the antlers. Trophy Hunters by name only give a negative tone to hunting. Advertising wounded game recovered for the rack is bad publicity for hunting

 

And, why where so many of us up in arms about guides using ultralight aircraft to spot game then radio down to guides with clients a number of years back? Was that really any different then baiting? Maybe baiting should only be allowed for a certain time period and one has to stop say a month prior to the first opening season.

 

Are trail cameras on public lands an invasion of an individuals rights? Maybe all those trail cameras are disappearing due to someone not wanting to be photographed when scouting water holes on public lands. What about trail cameras only being allowed to be used two weeks prior to opening day?

 

I guess what I am trying to say is we need to do a better job policing ourselves. Then maybe we won't be policed by others so much. We give Game and Fish direction in which they lean by our actions.

 

While I agree we should be policing ourselves better and this would curb most of what game and fish does I take issue with some of this.

First, you have no right to privacy on public lands. To take a trail camera just because you don't like having your picture taken is still theft. A better argument might be that the camera is considered abandoned property but that is still a stretch. One would need to prove the camera was left there for a long period of time without being maintained. If it is still taking pictures then it is being used. Theft is theft no matter how you want to try to make is sound justified.....

Second, are we really going to compare baiting to the use of ultra-lights? Really? I have never put out a feeder but for those that do and run the risk of it getting taken by the thief’s that are all over in our ranks then more power to them. Animals may be drawn to them more so and give the hunter an edge but the animal still has to come to the feeder and in daylight hours. The use of ultra-lights is something entirely different and I can't even believe we are comparing the two.

I compare baiting to the use of dogs for many reasons. One it is a lot of work, time and money spent to do it right. Two it helps the hunter by giving the hunter time to decide if the animal is one he/she wants to take. IMO this is beneficial to both the hunter and the game because the hunter doesn't rush and shoot an animal he later finds to be the wrong sex. Really how many times do you think a hunter accidently shoots a doe around a bait stand? There are accidents every year where a riffle hunter thinks he is shooting at a buck at a distance and finds out later it was a doe..... I know accidents happen and it is part of hunting as long as people do the right thing and turn themselves in. But really I know people who hunt using bait and these types of things don't happen.

How many of you use radios while out hunting? This is something G&F doesn't like either. Again I don't use them but don't have a problem with others doing so. I can make an argument for both sides when it comes to the use of radios. Shakespeare said it best when he said "the devil can quote scripture for his own purpose".

 

 

All I'm saying is there are many different ways to hunt and we shouldn't be bashing on others for the way they do it.

[JLW]

someday they will outlaw a method of take or a device and all the people that are against baiting will want support, but there will be none.

when you say "police ourselves" what do you mean by that? what are you supposed to say, " Uh would you not put out that corn because a lot of people don't like it"? Most people do report violations when they see them. If it is legal then what is there to police? That makes no sense!

If the law allows a method then by all means why can't we use that method??? I can see being discreet with the dressing of your animal or not leaving the carcass next to the camp or trailhead. Or cleaning up a bit before you go into town, washing the blood off your hands or changing your camo before going into McDonalds. Leaving a messy camp or throwin your blue mnts out the window.. (which I am constantly picking up)

Those are the things that need policing, not the use of corn or baiting!

they say it is about preventive disease spreading, but the data I have read doesn't support this.

Even 1 of the e-mails sent back to a member said it had to do with the archery success rate increasing.

I don't see how they know it is because of baiting, I must have missed that box on the comment card they sent to me.

couldn't be because the population increases every year.... or technology advances... faster bows... or that people hunting are getting better at hunting, learning lessons every time mr. browtine gives you the slip. I mean dang, god forbid the % #s get to a whole 3% from archery kills.

If the real # is even 3%

This is a done deal.... we will never get this back!

Remember when they want to outlaw another method or device..... remember where you stood on this!

I read a quote this weekend from one of the representatives from one of anti groups that helped push the law in California banning dogs for bears and bobcats...... they said " We want to ban hunting all together "

I don't think G$F wants to ban hunting... well maybe some of them do, but it does have a lot to do with $.

this will not keep the disease out when deer migrate here from other states that do have it.

 

I agree whole heartily with your last statement... we should stick TOGETHER!

 

James

[Str8Shot]

Lets see... in the last year, game and fish, has created daylong shooting of coyotes, and mountain lions in many problem units, they have lifted the restriction on magazine capacity, are trying to lift the restriction on suppressors and fighting the federal government to not steal state sportsman's dollars. Sounds like they are just trying to screw hunters... hmm really? I could care less if it is about disease or not... there are plenty of studies (and why some think that studies from other areas do not pertain to behaviors of deer in Az is beyond me) that clearly show that baiting creates a more limited feeding range and limits movement of deer through traditional home habitats and increases nocturnal feeding habits. If you pro baiters have studies that show these guys are wrong please share them because in a state with a population such as Az changing feeding,home/migration habits do negatively effect other hunters. If it did not there would not be so many who get pissed off when they find others in their baited honey holes. Let them do their jobs and quit crying foul. I would be more worried of the federal government and what may happen in the next 4 years

[JLW]

Lets see... in the last year, game and fish, has created daylong shooting of coyotes, and mountain lions in many problem units, they have lifted the restriction on magazine capacity, are trying to lift the restriction on suppressors and fighting the federal government to not steal state sportsman's dollars. Sounds like they are just trying to screw hunters... hmm really? I could care less if it is about disease or not... there are plenty of studies (and why some think that studies from other areas do not pertain to behaviors of deer in Az is beyond me) that clearly show that baiting creates a more limited feeding range and limits movement of deer through traditional home habitats and increases nocturnal feeding habits. If you pro baiters have studies that show these guys are wrong please share them because in a state with a population such as Az changing feeding,home/migration habits do negatively effect other hunters. If it did not there would not be so many who get pissed off when they find others in their baited honey holes. Let them do their jobs and quit crying foul. I would be more worried of the federal government and what may happen in the next 4 years

how bout my cam picture of daytime feeding bucks?

I guess they didn't get the memo.

how about the 600 tags they give out and much of the activity that you see during scouting turns into bedding time.

you act like a deer can't use its smarts and feel pressure and go into survival modes.

this isn't about the disease it's about the tag #S!!!

Most Master Baiters don't keep there feed up enough to make them change that drastically like you say....this isn't the mid west or east coast! why would there be so many pics of daytime bucks????? I bet I can go to where Average Joe was talking about seeing all the bait piles everywere and they are all gone now!

They will start their pattern for the rut and be out of that area like they do every year! And with all the baiting those big bucks are still there!

You don't like baiting and you probably don't bow hunt we get it!

I never said the G&F was out to take our rights away but they sure are about # of tags sold without concern of mandatory reporting!

Get over the next 4 years... you don't have a choice!

The feds will slowly take away our rights 1 piece at a time and you can't stop them.

And unless you can change the demographics we are screwed!

your only hope is to offer amnesty to all the illegals and pander for their vote.......

 

James

[huntlines]

Lets see... in the last year, game and fish, has created daylong shooting of coyotes, and mountain lions in many problem units, they have lifted the restriction on magazine capacity, are trying to lift the restriction on suppressors and fighting the federal government to not steal state sportsman's dollars. Sounds like they are just trying to screw hunters... hmm really? I could care less if it is about disease or not... there are plenty of studies (and why some think that studies from other areas do not pertain to behaviors of deer in Az is beyond me) that clearly show that baiting creates a more limited feeding range and limits movement of deer through traditional home habitats and increases nocturnal feeding habits. If you pro baiters have studies that show these guys are wrong please share them because in a state with a population such as Az changing feeding,home/migration habits do negatively effect other hunters. If it did not there would not be so many who get pissed off when they find others in their baited honey holes. Let them do their jobs and quit crying foul. I would be more worried of the federal government and what may happen in the next 4 years

 

I don't know where you got your information about G&F lifting bans on magazine capacities? The state law makers changed this not G&F. G&F opposed this idea. As for them opening night hunting for varmits, well this was something people fought for a long time. Years ago I remember sitting in a meeting with G&F arguing this very idea and G&F was against it! The reason they were against it was because it put their officers at risk?!?

 

I hope now there will be enough pressure from hunters on state law makers to over ride the baiting law just like they were forced to do with the magazine capacity issue......

[SDHNTR]

No more debate please, but what's the latest on this? Did the ban pass? If so, when does it go into effect?

[bowhunter4life]

If you need to go to a closer office, you still can voice your concerns!



Thank you for your message.

The Phoenix office meeting room is not set up to allow persons to participate in a meeting via telephone or e-mail from their own home/business for a number of reasons.

However, it is not necessary for a person to go to the Phoenix office to attend/participate in a Commission meeting.
Commission meetings are also broadcasted at the five Regional offices (in Pinetop, Flagstaff, Kingman, Yuma, and Mesa); each Regional office has the ability to transmit electronic blue slips to the Phoenix office and allow attendees to speak to the Commission via an office telephone/intercom.


In addition, for those persons who want to view the meeting, but are not interested in speaking to the Commission may view the Commission meeting via webcast by accessing the following link:

http://www.azgfd.gov...issionCam.shtml

[DrRx09]

I won't be able to conference from Tucson, but I sent my emails again opposing this new rule to the commission and I think everyone should as well!!!

 

http://www.azgfd.gov/inside_azgfd/commission_members.shtml

[CouesBuckhunter]

"the Commission considers bait to include any food-stuff or ingestible material that has been deposited, scattered, piled, or delivered by a passive or active feeder or feed delivery system so as to constitute an attractant, lure or enticement to wildlife and to influence the movement of these animals for the purpose of harvest by hunters."

 

It's clear to me the G&F is saying anything spread out to alter the natural movement of wildlife and kill them is considered baiting with a salt exception.

 

I read the salt exception rule as if I use water softener type salt or Deer cane type salt to entice an animal to kill him I will be illegal, however if I use a salt block or other livestock type salt products I will be legal.

 

As a current "baiter" this law will literally eliminate thousands of my dollars each year from the AZ economy which is fine by me. I'll take my money and buy a couple out of state tags and kill a couple extra deer each year with it. I'm sure Utah and Wisconsin will appreciate it.

Well said