AZGF to ban salt/baiting

[bowhunter.forever]

Huntlines ... Here is the info on those states and the link I posted for all states from the previous discussion ...

 

Illinois NOT legal to feed or bait anything for deer.

 

Kansas Legal to feed and bait deer except state land. Bait must be removed 10 days prior to hunting. Liquid scents and sprays are exempt.

 

Maryland No restrictions on private land. It is legal to feed deer anything, anytime on private land with the exception of the CWD management zone in Allegany County.

Michigan (lower) From Oct. 1 to Jan. 1. hunters may place any type of bait, no more than two gallons at a time, across a 10-foot by 10-foot area per hunting location. Recreational Feeding: Property owners may place two gallons of bait on their property within 100 yards of their residence year-round. Baiting and feeding will still be prohibited in Deer Management Unit 487 which includes Alcona, Alpena, Iosco, Montmorency, Oscoda and Presque Isle Counties. 517-373-2329

Regulation

(pgs 3-4) Michigan (upper) Legal to bait deer with less than 2 gallons. You can feed deer the rest of the year with in 100 yards of a house. Lucky Buck Mineral is legal as either feed or bait.

517-373-2329

Regulation

(pgs 3-4)

Nebraska Legal to feed deer. Cannot hunt over anything within 200 yards that was placed within 60 days. 402-471-5442

Regulation

 

New York

Not legal to feed deer or bait deer. 518-402-8883

Regulation

(pg 20)

West Virginia It is legal to feed deer anything with the exception of parts of Hardy & Hampshire County north of State Highway 55. This is a CWD containment area and it is not legal to feed or bait in this area. The rest of the state is legal to feed deer on private land anything including Lucky Buck Mineral. On public land feed/bait must be removed from September 1st - December 31st. 304-558-2784

Regulation

(pg 12)

Wisconsin It is legal to feed and bait deer with anything including Lucky Buck Mineral (with a 2 gallon limit), in all counties EXCEPT the following: Adams, Barron, Burnett, Calumet, Columbia, Crawford, Dane, Dodge, Grant, Green, Iowa, Jefferson, Juneau, Kenosha, Lafayette, Manitowoc, Marathon, Marquette, Milwaukee, Polk, Portage, Racine, Richland, Rock, Sauk, Sheboygan, Vernon, Walworth, Washburn, Waukesha, Waushara, and Wood. National forest areas usually follow local state regulations on baiting. Check with your local DNR office for more information. 888-936-7463

Regulation

(pg 30-34)

 

 

if you want to find out more on all states ... http://www.lucky-buc...aitinglaws.html

 

What????? It is illegal to bait deer in New York but yet they have CWD!!!??? Sounds like baiting didn't have anything to do with CWD in New York but yet you site it as an example 123456???!!!! Yep Im a troller and yes I love Obama. Why do I love Obama because he will take all your guns away and then it will be archery hunting only! Then 123456 I will have all the deer to myself!

 

The way I see it is all you rifle hunters have an unfair advantage, shooting those poor deer from hundreds of yards away when they don't even have a chance. I for one will still be archery hunting with bait and raising the harvest ratio even higher! I'm sure then 123456 will push to ban archery hunting, but thats fine sharped spoons sounds challenging..........

[reganranch]

That was Str8tshot who provided the data in that set. 123456 had no input in that post..............................

[bobbyo]

What High Archery success rate is everyone talking about? Man I need a new unit.

[Str8Shot]

That was Str8tshot who provided the data in that set. 123456 had no input in that post..............................

 

Tyler ... go back and look .... whoever 123456 is he or she had input on that thread too... I just supplied this information since it was asked and I had already supplied it ... not interested in debating the issue any further on a second thread hence why I only gave the direct info asked about ... to imply that I and 123456 may be one in the same is a bit narrow minded remember over 50 % of hunters do not support baiting or hunting over bait ... so you are taking a simpleton approach to make us who do not care a small minority ... funny, that you had no issues soliciting information from me when you first got your 300 RUM and had questions on the gun, bullets and loads

[bowhunter.forever]

That was Str8tshot who provided the data in that set. 123456 had no input in that post..............................

 

Yea but 123456 is supporting the ban based on the data. Also no I don't like Obama nor do I want guns taken away, just showing how rediculous the people on here how hunt but support a ban on baiting are. The thinking is ignorant and just to prove a point look at what happened to bear baiting when we sat on our hands and let the animal rights activist take that away from us. By allowing this to go into effect we are leaving the door wide open for other things to get banned. We should stand together on this or watch all our hunting methods disappear. I guess that wouldn't be a bad thing. No hunting means no game and fish department. Then I can hunt whenever I want :-)

 

But either way I will still be hunting no matter what..........

[reganranch]

No Str8shot that was not a negative connotation towards you at all. I was referencing the odd comment bowhunterforever made above mine he quoted you and went on a rant about 123456. I was just wondering why he quoted your post and ranted about something else#odd stuff for sure.

[Str8Shot]

No Str8shot that was not a negative connotation towards you at all. I was referencing the odd comment bowhunterforever made above mine he quoted you and went on a rant about 123456. I was just wondering why he quoted your post and ranted about something else#odd stuff for sure.

 

My apology ... Tyler ... I did not see the post from bowhunerforever prior to yours .... Well Obama might be proud he has one supporter on this site

[bowhunter.forever]

Here is the letter I am sending to AZGDF and everyone else I can think of... I have plagerized some good points of Steven Ward and others and hope that you all find lots in here to use in your own letters feel free to copy and paste the whole thin if you like....

 

 

To whom it may concern,

 

As a 37 year resident of the great state of Arizona, and having spent nearly ½ my life in the outdoors in some way shape or form, I wish to convey my opinions in regards to the proposed Article 3 rule change. I am opposed to this rule change, I am opposed to the verbiage, and I am disappointed in the group that is pushing this open ended and discriminatory agenda, and here is why:

 

The Facts....

 

1) There is NO data collected in the state of AZ to support a ban on baiting or anything of the sort.

2) Members of AZGFD are taking a fast track approach to this issue (during hunting season) with very little effort to inform those most affected about the “new rule” ramifications.

3) All the “data” AZGFD claims to be using is from states that have 20+ deer per square mile. Fact: Other than a few residential areas there are no deer numbers that approach this in AZ.

4) Water sources concentrate game in Arizona FAR more than any bait source PERIOD… water is our rarest commodity, yet we are site bait as a danger?

5) We do not have the winters that CWD states have, we don’t have “deer yards”, and we do not have major migration routes that concentrate hundreds of animals per sq. mile.

6) We as hunters must realize that supporting “how” others hunt and their personal right to do so is a good thing… especially if it has little effect on you as a hunter. This agenda most affects those we wish to recruit and retain as hunters: Children, Women, Elderly, and Handicapped hunters.

7) The fact is no one knows how many animals are harvested over bait; it really doesn’t matter if harvest objectives are in place to insure a consistent management model. The checks and balances of this are when a unit gets shut for the August or December hunts, because archers harvested the predetermined objective.

8) Opportunity… The AZGFD (in recent years) dumped tons of tags into the hunts in order to boost “hunter recruitment” and “hunter opportunity”, so why with NO REAL data would we as hunters support a rule that removes opportunity and recruitment for many hunters???? Specifically: youth, women, elderly, and handicapped… WHY!!!??

9) Economic impacts: How many $$$ are generated for the AZGFD, local businesses, and households in AZ due to resident and NON-Resident hunters who use this method?? This number is HUGE… Every small, local archery shop, feed store, Sportsman’s Warehouse, Cabela’s, Bass Pro Shop, Wal-Mart, etc will take a hit as well. Check out the “bait” isle at any of these places and you will see how it will affect the especially the Small Mom & Pops shops…. And I know many are also anti-guide, but many folks feed families & pay mortgages by working in the outdoors and some of those guys will also take a hit, so doesn’t this rule touch on our right to commerce?

10) AZGFD must do its “Due Diligence” when making a rule change that affects this many different facets of the hunting community. The small group that pushes this agenda has changed their stance on why this rule should be in place every time we hit them with a bullet point that they can’t defend. A rule like this requires DATA, and they have provided NONE that applies specifically to our state and our herd numbers.

 

My personal thoughts about things that must happen before a rule change like this is discussed in earnest:

1. I do think the department should implement a Harvest objective for Archery deer hunting in each unit similar to how the bear hunts are operated and that we should not go to a draw for archery deer, mainly because it would be a loss of opportunity and revenue, as well as a waste of resources.
   
2. I do believe the department should make every effort to stop CWD and other disease at the borders of our state, first and foremost.
   
3. I really don’t care how folks harvest deer, if it's legal it is also ethical. We should all exercise our rights and freedom of choice!! There is No True Data that suggests that any of the proposed rule changes are unethical or impractical for use here in Arizona.
   
4. I agree with mandatory success reports for ALL HUNTERS, not only for outfitters, or bow hunters, but all hunters in the state.
   
5. I do believe AZGFD must perform studies within Arizona in order to formulate consistent data for our deer numbers. This includes hunter reporting, disease studies, and economic studies before the true merit of such a rule change will be presentable.
   
6. I do believe that many factors in our changing environment and evolution of hunting can affect the herds. However, there is no data to suggest that the ingestible substances being used by hunters are not beneficial to all wildlife and over all to hunting.
   
7. I having seen bait in use, and also have witnessed that truly Wild Deer show very little interested in any “bait” that does not occur naturally in the wild. However, in locations where deer coexist with humans and local homeowners feed the deer, there is a higher success rate. Moreover, these “urban deer” are being concentrated, more so, by the public and not hunters. The “urban deer” are not legally or productively hunted by rifle hunters, therefore the data collected in mandatory harvest numbers is currently skewed because many of these deer are not even harvested where rifle hunters are hunting.
   
8. Having hunted my whole life, using every advancement in technology, every advantage legally afforded to mankind as the top predator in the food chain, I see no greater advantage in baits, than I do in trail cameras, high powered optics, high powered rifles, super accurate muzzleloaders, high tech archery equipment, cross bows, or any other technological advancement… and there is NO PROOF that bait causes more success than any other method.
   
9. Although I am never in support of more laws and rules (as we have too many) the AZGFD must not write/propose changes that leave it open to “interpretation”. This current verbiage can and will be miss interpreted to include many other facets of hunting including: the use of trail cameras, ground blinds, hunting water sources as a whole, agriculture vs. hunting, and commerce.
   

 

 

I hold objection to these sorts of power grabs, by using vague verbiage that can and will leave the door wide open to more changes to the rules, and more infringement on freedom of choice. The two excerpts from the proposed rule change exemplify this:

 

“In addition, the Commission believes that R12-4-303 exists to prohibit devices and methods that either compromise the spirit of fair chase or adversely impact hunter success rates”.

 

The Commission should believe nothing of the kind. This not only sets hunters against one another it depletes the strength and unity between hunters and the AZGFD. Such a concept applied to day-to-day life would lead to the government telling us which autos we are “allowed” to purchase with our own money. AZGFD should manage our herds, not hunters.

 

“The recent increase in the use of baiting has resulted in disproportionally high harvest rates among those using this method of hunting. Consequently, the Commission is offering fewer hunting opportunities, which negatively impacts hunter recruitment and retention.”

 

There has never been a less accurate statement by the AZGFD, because there is ZERO DATA to support such. They have not asked a single hunter if he harvested his animal over bait, and I am not sure that they have a right too. The Commission is offering the same or more opportunity today to deer hunters than ever before and lower success rates have never been posted due to more hunting pressure week in and week out in the woods. More hunters are harvesting deer in a spot and stalk method with archery equipment than ever before and there are no stats to support this either.

 

I really don’t feel this is the beginning of the end to hunting, but I will say that if Arizona outlaws hunting over bait our success rate will be maintained as it is. We know where to hunt; we are in the field all the time and know the animals better than most. Hunters will just sit water and whack every buck that comes in there, we will be unable to spread out the harvested animals and the concentration of hunting pressure.

 

I do not want to see any changes to the current laws pertaining to R12-4-303. I would like to ask for data pertaining to the fact that the department feels that hunters utilizing the method of hunting has affected the deer numbers and the harvest rates.

 

In closing, can anyone currently answer all the following questions that I have pertaining to this issue, as a Taxpayer, as a member of the base that provides income to the AZGFD, and as an avid hunter and conservationist (if not we must have these answers before such drastic changes are made.) .

 

Here are my questions:

 

Provide scientific data gathered in Arizona showing the transmission of disease at water sources, Bait sites, Mineral sites, Licking Branches, Scrapes, Natural food sources.

 

Provide the number of Archery deer tags sold over the past 10 years. Year by year.

 

Provide factual data pertaining to the number of deer harvested by the archers over the past 10 years, year by year.

 

Provide the number of rifle deer tags sold over the past 10 years. Year by year.

 

Provide factual data pertaining to the number of deer harvested by gun hunters over the past 10 years, (Year by Year).

 

Provide factual data showing with what method archers have utilized to harvested their animal for the past 10 years, “Example” Spot and Stalk, Water Holes, Salt based Products, Bait sites, Scent Products, Tree stands, Ground Blinds, Calling.

 

Provide factual data during deer surveys for the past 10 years,

 

Why deer survey numbers are down but the rifle hunter success is still high.

 

Why Archery are the only hunters that have to report deer harvests.

 

Does anyone think if all Arizona hunters were required to report their harvest the Arizona Game and Fish Department would have better data to manage the game?

 

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

 

Sincerely,

 

AMEN TO THAT BROTHER!

[reganranch]

No Str8shot that was not a negative connotation towards you at all. I was referencing the odd comment bowhunterforever made above mine he quoted you and went on a rant about 123456. I was just wondering why he quoted your post and ranted about something else#odd stuff for sure.

 

My apology ... Tyler ... I did not see the post from bowhunerforever prior to yours .... Well Obama might be proud he has one supporter on this site

 

Totally cool man! The RUM is doing good thanks to you man way back when! Waiting for it to put a few more couseys on the wall (we'll see come friday) and burn out the remington barrel so we can get down to some real tach pushing.

[Str8Shot]

No Str8shot that was not a negative connotation towards you at all. I was referencing the odd comment bowhunterforever made above mine he quoted you and went on a rant about 123456. I was just wondering why he quoted your post and ranted about something else#odd stuff for sure.

 

My apology ... Tyler ... I did not see the post from bowhunerforever prior to yours .... Well Obama might be proud he has one supporter on this site

 

Totally cool man! The RUM is doing good thanks to you man way back when! Waiting for it to put a few more couseys on the wall (we'll see come friday) and burn out the remington barrel so we can get down to some real tach pushing.

Those Remington Barrels do not burn out that fast unless your pushing a lot of hot loads in short sittings ... what unit this year you hunting ?

[reganranch]

No Str8shot that was not a negative connotation towards you at all. I was referencing the odd comment bowhunterforever made above mine he quoted you and went on a rant about 123456. I was just wondering why he quoted your post and ranted about something else#odd stuff for sure.

 

My apology ... Tyler ... I did not see the post from bowhunerforever prior to yours .... Well Obama might be proud he has one supporter on this site

 

Totally cool man! The RUM is doing good thanks to you man way back when! Waiting for it to put a few more couseys on the wall (we'll see come friday) and burn out the remington barrel so we can get down to some real tach pushing.

Those Remington Barrels do not burn out that fast unless your pushing a lot of hot loads in short sittings ... what unit this year you hunting ?

 

32 this year, oddly enough some freak accident between my brain and the pen in my hand put the wrong number down with the regs right in front of me. Scouting has gone good though and there was a decent buck i saw in the middle of the day walking from a tank in Mule Deer country which i found was odd (2 weeks ago) so i will be after him in the transition zone. Which hunt(s) do you have coming up man?

[bobbyo]

Why don't you guys get an effen room with your RUM. This is the bowhunting section!

[Str8Shot]

Bowhunterforlife may want a new handle ... maybe like baithunterforlife or MasterbaiterforLife.... and I will say it again even though it caused a little out cry a couple years ago when I said it " a hunter using bait is no different than a pediophile using an ice creme truck to hunt his prey "

[bobbyo]

Bowhunterforlife may want a new handle ... maybe like baithunterforlife or MasterbaiterforLife.... and I will say it again even though it caused a little out cry a couple years ago when I said it " a hunter using bait is no different than a pediophile using an ice creme truck to hunt his prey "

 

And a guy that uses an Ultramag to hunt a 60 pound animal is some how Angelic? I said it a couple years ago and even though it caused a little outcry so I will say it again. A hunter using an ultramag is compensating for other inadequacies if you know what I mean.

[Str8Shot]

Bowhunterforlife may want a new handle ... maybe like baithunterforlife or MasterbaiterforLife.... and I will say it again even though it caused a little out cry a couple years ago when I said it " a hunter using bait is no different than a pediophile using an ice creme truck to hunt his prey "

 

And a guy that uses an Ultramag to hunt a 60 pound animal is some how Angelic? I said it a couple years ago and even though it caused a little outcry so I will say it again. A hunter using an ultramag is compensating for other inadequacies if you know what I mean.

 

Same could be said for guys who need bait bobbyo ... and it is less about the gun and more about the load ... 165 gr ... never a shot over 200 yards and no meat loss ... but seems pretty humane to see them drop right in their tracks with no suffering ..un-like running 50 yards with a rage cut through you ...