AZGFD Rule Changes

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Close to half a century of hunting under my belt and a lot of memories and a lot of tag soup. I watch hunting shows where folks pay to hunt bears in Manitoba from a treestand over a barrel of honey and donuts put out by a guide.

Hey if thats what works for you go for it. Hunting is a thirst an obsession if you will and everyone does it for different reasons, all with a goal in mind.

Sometimes it's just commaradie and nether a shot fired equating to a successful hunt. Other times it may be helping someone be successful to filll that nitch.

Until this topic came up I had no idea that people actually baited deer. I imagine that unless you are physically challenged there really isn't a reason in my mind to be baiting anything unless it is to cull a problem predator.

My ability to find game, if it is there, has not seemed to be an issue. I will get some flak for this but I find it to completely unethical to be baiting deer and unecessary for any hunter worth his/her salt (no pun intended). They are out there, go put in the time, pattern and find them. Yeah it's work but it should be and game cameras and bait need to be stopped.

Spending money and hours carting feed into the field is in no way shape or form beneficial to to portraying us in a positive light. Deer are in the cornfields after the midwest after the harvest with no ill effects so eating corn aparently isn't a problem for them physically.

Spin it to your advantage but this us against them mentality is really pathetic.

I can't oppose something that was never needed to begin with for an able bodied hunter.

I look upon baiting deer the same as some guy putting sleeping pills in a girls drink.

 

Wow guess I missed out on that opportunity

 

Are you saying you were against trapping too which is now pretty much gone?? I mean that is pretty cheap, setting up a critter like that. Shoulda caught those coyotes with our bare hands!!!

 

You are right though, if I were a good hunter I would never need really anything like bait to kill a silly coues.

 

I don't hunt over bait, but I just don't like people taking things away from that opportunity without a substantial reason.......you hunt your real way and let others hunt in their less manly way........as long as it is legal!!!

 

If I get caught shooting a deer over a ranchers salt block am I going to get ticketed?? Or a natural lick???

 

Lots to consider besides just being manly.........

[THE RIFLEMAN]

I gotta say, after reading G&F's responses to questions, I am starting to lean more toward the where the heck is the evidence? argument. I don't rally care if they ban it or not, but I agree that more evidence is needed. Seems they are using the increased harvest of whitetail with bows in 22 and 23 as a fallback on, just in case we do not buy the CWD argument. Starting to sound more like a politcal event rather than a scientific event.

Yes it is political - Initiated and pushed by a few shelfish and egotistical knowitall dingbats .......Go to the AZGF commission meetings and put faces and names to these leftwing nut jobs it may surprize you... I have and now I privately steer buisness away from certain hunting/archery shops - I know it cost them $$$$$$$.....

[THE RIFLEMAN]

Is there a cure or drug that could be put in the feed,salt and water to inoculate/protect the deer and elk from disease's ????? That would be the most pro active form of fighting CWD and other disease's ...... !

[520HUNT]

Is there a cure or drug that could be put in the feed,salt and water to inoculate/protect the deer and elk from disease's ????? That would be the most pro active form of fighting CWD and other disease's ...... !

 

yes, its called salt.

[Str8Shot]

Man you guys just want to have it your way. You want to do things the easiest way possible. Go buy some venison!

And you get angry when your easy ways are threatened. Go throw some blinds in a tank. It'll make you feel better.

You guys amaze me.

 

After 6 posts I am sure the feeling is farily mutual.............we buy beef, well, at least me and the mouse in my pocket.

 

I think most have stated that if there was substanial information, data, etc regarding this measure here in the state of Az they would listen to the proposal.

 

From your post it is more of a "have it your way." approach.

I suspect tat Jbird and Str8snot are related .... Posibly cousins! Two tools sharing a box!

 

Wow! another almost intellectual comment from from even a bigger, rusted tool, and a dull one at that ... Sorry to inform you< Riflemanwannabe... I have no relatives on this thread, but you see other hunters who do not share the same support for baiting as you and other baiters may have ... keep in mind this is an issue that nation wide has hunters spit almost right down the middle on ... I even posted a field and stream poll from Feb of this year on baiting being Fair chase in which 51% did not believe it was fair chase... Like it or not that is the way it is but and your shallow BS remarks do nothing to help your side gain any empathy or support ... If I am a tool I am a much stronger and sharper tool than your dull lame butt...

 

Tyler it is cool that you like this ... just keep in mind this tool helped you out when you needed help and had questions on your RUM and loads ... Shows a bit of Hypocrisy on your part, but it is all good , I may have a different position than you on this topic, but I am not going to hold that against you

 

If you can not use a search engine to find reports and studies on this topic (and yes, maybe none specific from AZ G&F, but there is plenty of data out there on the topic) ... it is no surprise that you need bait to find deer ... keep up the good fight and like I said several times before If it passes... no big deal to me, if it does not pass ... no big deal to me either...

[jnobleinaz]

Here is the bottom line. A hunter not hunting is not good. I have yet to see the effects of the forest road changes. I bet it will be surprising in 5 years how many numbers we lose in this state. Once you are a certain age and cannot hike you are pretty much just able to road hunt (another one guys complain about) or sit a water hole or other. With these road changes there will be a lot of older guys (no offense I will be there too one day) that will say screw it because the roads they used to drive are shut down and they will throw in the towel. I don't know how many but young or old, but if they use salt or bait if this passes mor of them might be gone too.

 

How does that help us? I look at the hunting and fishing community as a whole body, archers, muzzle loaders, rifleman, trappers, houndsmen, guys that spot and stalk, guys that use blinds, guys that use treestands, guys that use salt, guys that use bait, guys that road hunt, guys that just buy all the crap from the catalogs and drive around to look cool. When you think of it this way you take away your left leg from the knee down your a pretty worthless if you have to defend yourself right?

 

So why would you cut off your own leg? All your body parts don't have to like each other to work. Because if you do, and you are in a fight... you will lose much more than just your leg.

 

Cant say it enough. Everyone of us hunts a different way, everyone of us loves this activity, every one of us would hate to see it taken away, so why dont we ALL just ban together and realize that one of our limbs is about to be cut off and kick some a$$ on this issue?

 

Please.

[ready2hunt]

Here is the bottom line. A hunter not hunting is not good. I have yet to see the effects of the forest road changes. I bet it will be surprising in 5 years how many numbers we lose in this state. Once you are a certain age and cannot hike you are prety much just able to road hunt (another one guys complain about) or sit a water hole or other. With these road changes there will be a lot of older guys (no offense I will be there too one day) that will say screw it because the roads they used to drive are shut down and they will throw in the towel. I don't know how many but young or old, but if they use salt or bait if this passes they might be gone too. How does that help us. I look at the hunting and fishing community as a whole body, archers, muzzle loaders, rifleman, trappers, houndsmen, guys that spot and stalk, guys that use blinds, guys that use treestands, guys that use salt, guys that use bait, guys that road hunt, guys that just buy all the crap from the catalogs and drive around to look cool. When you think of it this way you take away your left leg from the knee down your a pretty worthless if you have to defend yourself right.

 

+1 I think this is a good post.

 

I don't necessarily like all my neighbors in my neigborhood but we all look out for eachother to keep the place safe. I am sending an email to G&F today and appreciate the info shared in previous posts. Like it or not we all share the same forest.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Here is the bottom line. A hunter not hunting is not good. I have yet to see the effects of the forest road changes. I bet it will be surprising in 5 years how many numbers we lose in this state. Once you are a certain age and cannot hike you are pretty much just able to road hunt (another one guys complain about) or sit a water hole or other. With these road changes there will be a lot of older guys (no offense I will be there too one day) that will say screw it because the roads they used to drive are shut down and they will throw in the towel. I don't know how many but young or old, but if they use salt or bait if this passes mor of them might be gone too.

 

How does that help us? I look at the hunting and fishing community as a whole body, archers, muzzle loaders, rifleman, trappers, houndsmen, guys that spot and stalk, guys that use blinds, guys that use treestands, guys that use salt, guys that use bait, guys that road hunt, guys that just buy all the crap from the catalogs and drive around to look cool. When you think of it this way you take away your left leg from the knee down your a pretty worthless if you have to defend yourself right?

 

So why would you cut off your own leg? All your body parts don't have to like each other to work. Because if you do, and you are in a fight... you will lose much more than just your leg.

 

Cant say it enough. Everyone of us hunts a different way, everyone of us loves this activity, every one of us would hate to see it taken away, so why dont we ALL just ban together and realize that one of our limbs is about to be cut off and kick some a$$ on this issue?

 

Please.

 

Well said..........

[CEI]

Good discussion.

 

My first thought, heck yeah,ban baiting because I am tired of seeing everyone else with big coues deer & elk. My second thought, ban radio use because I am tired of seeing everyone else with BIG animals! My third thought, ban sitting waters; heck it is baiting to! I see way too many pictures of people killing big animals on water in the desert. Ban trail cameras while you are at it.

 

For the record. I don't bait. I have very rarely used trail cameras, radios, or sit water. I use big binoculars. Spot-n-stalk & use calls. These are my CHOICES and I hold no one else accountable, but myself.

 

I would agree with this rule change if there was 100% SCIENTIFIC data behind it. Honestly, I don't think this is about scientific data. Bowhunter4life pointed out some great facts with regards to trapping and anti-pressure. I also believe it is about economics.

 

My final thoughts... Why do I even hunt? For myself.

 

I hope you guys KILL some toads, just not the ones I am hunting. If you doU, I will tip my hat and say that is one heck of an animal. Jealousy and envy are going to continue to tear us a part if we do not channel it.

[John7979]

Just one step closer to taking away hound hunting, they've done it California and Oregon! The more they take away in little steps the easier it is and less noticable! Against this 100%! Before long if we allow them to keep taking away our rights we will be stuck with sling shots trying to kill an elk....and with non-lead by the way!

[654321]

IMO the only option you have is gather the best data you can gather and put it in a well organized letter and send it to the department. Utah allows baiting has anyone tried to gather any data on how fast CWD is spreading there, Colorado doesnt allow baiting how fast is it spreading there. I don't think the argument that baiting is a good way for retention or recruitment of hunters is going to get you to far, from what I've heard here about baiting is it is lots of work and long walks to bait sites, I think if you can hike 2 miles to a bait site you're not to old or handicapped to hunt without bait. If you think its going to be a huge economic impact then provide the data. show how much money the mom and pop stores are making off seeling bait ect. bottom line is if you havent sent an e-mail or letter to the department it will sure make it easy for the G&F to make their decision.

[THE RIFLEMAN]

Just one step closer to taking away hound hunting, they've done it California and Oregon! The more they take away in little steps the easier it is and less noticable! Against this 100%! Before long if we allow them to keep taking away our rights we will be stuck with sling shots trying to kill an elk....and with non-lead by the way!

Spot on its about control ..... It won't matter how many hunters "voice their opinions" the commission will do as they please - In fact they have allready madwe up tyheir minds to take away another method of hunting!

I do not personally bait but I will not begrudge another hunter that right or critisize it unfairly! I have discovered bait sites out in the forests of 22 and I respect that another hunter has worked at creating an oportunity to harvest a deer..... On the other hand he does not own or have exclusive rights to "his set up" - left on publ;ic land its open for use to another wether it be a hunter or some other form of enjoyoing the forest!!!!!

Most of the "baiting" occurs on private property in units 22 & 23 this is the bone of contention when it comes to archery success rates and disease transmissions.... When property owners dump 1000"s of pounds of bait out for the deer and elk it becomes an issue to the knee jerk law makers that believe they can stop it by making more uninforceable laws. .... There are allready county laws in place prohibiting feeding deer, elk , javalina and predators on private property if they want to stop most of the bad type of baiting then enforce the existing laws! And yes I believe there is a vast difference between a small pile of corn or a feeder and dumping thousand of pounds of bait in a huge pile! There are incoorect ways to feed the deer and any wildlife biologist would agree the huge pile method is not correct! Again I say enforce the existing laws before making new ones!!!! More laws just give the takers more power less laws are always the best way to preserve our freedoms!

[654321]

its quite possible I'm wrong here but i think the only counties where it is illegal to feed wildlife excluding birds is pima and maricopa and if you look at that law it says if you are legally hunting then feeding wildlife is allowed. I think the law was passed to reduce animal conflicts in the urban areas within those counties.

[average american]

I would like to add a few comments to the controversy about the bait ban currently being reviewed by the game and Fish Commission.

 

First off let it be known that I mite be a newbie on this site(sort of) but I am no newbie to hunting in Arizona. I am an Arizona native and have been hunting for over 30 years. I have taken probably more than my share of Whitetail and elk over the years as well as 9 of the big 10 and have seen hunting change drastically over the last 20 years, not all for the better. To think that rules don't need to be adjusted or changed over time is just plain crazy. If rules hadn't been implemented decades ago there would not be any game out there for us to pursue today. Things change, get used to it. Fact is, there is just too many people using the resources for things not to change.

 

I do respect other's opinions on this matter and would never revert to name calling or threatening. We all have opinions and the right to expess them in a civil manner. We will never all agree. Nothing I can say will change any minds nor can anyone change mine. It's never easy to decide just where to draw the line on matters like this but we all need to draw it somewhere.

 

I am sure that the G&F do have some valid scientific or management reasons for taking up the subject of baiting although we may never know for sure or agree with them.

 

I am very opposed to baiting animals for probably different reasons than most. First, I think that we owe the animals that we are pursueing a little more respect than to get them addicted to an unnatural food source for the sole reason of killing them. All the advances in hunting technology over the years has been ours. The deer's knowledge is the same as it always has been. At what point will it become not fair chase? Second, I believe that baiting has the potential to do more harm to our hunting rights by giving ammunition to anti-hunting groups everywhere. Most of the general public does not hunt or have an opinion either way about hunting but they are out there in greater numbers all the time. With all of the corn piles and food blocks out there they see them too. I would just about bet that most of them would say that baiting is an unfair way to hunt. I have talked to a few hikers who were very put off by it. It won't be long before the baiting issue is taken out of the G&F hands and put to the voters of the state, much like trapping was years ago. The trapping ban was not the fault of the G&F but rather the fault of a few unscrupulous trappers that placed traps wherever they pleased and caught peoples's dogs. Pretty soon it was front page news and the antis had the story they needed to get the voters to vote with their bleeding hearts. The same thing could easily happen here.

 

While I respect the views of the outspoken people expressing opinions here I will never agree. I don't ever see hunters uniting on controversial subjects unanimously. We live in a country where we have the right to stand up for what we feel is right and i would expect everyone to do just that. If we support things that we don't believe in we really are sheeple. I could not in good faith back something that I thought was morally wrong and I don't for one second think that this is just the tip of the iceberg in taking away our hunting rights. It might just be a move to help save them.

 

One thing is certain: we all have the right and duty to tell the G&F how we feel on the subject. It's easy to send an e-mail to them. If you don't take the time to at least express your opinion you don't have any right complaining whatever the outcome.

[McGeehunter]

Average American, while i disagree with you on some of your opinions. I do agree that we all will never feel the same about certain issues. I appreciate your comments as they were non judgemental and well spoken. This has been a real interesting and entertaining thread to follow. We as hunters need to understand there will aways be difference of opinions. But we shouldnt be putting other hunters tactics (as long as legal) down. Good Luck y'all on future hunts.