AZGFD Rule Changes

[wardsoutfitters]

Has anyone noticed if the PROPOSAL OF RULE CHANGES was sent out to all the hunters in the state asking for public comment? I have noticed that it hasn’t been posted on the azgfd area of coueswhitetail.com.

[elkaholic]

why would they want any public comment ? - kinda funny i posted at another website - these guys are baitn / camera gurus - very little responce compared to here - go figure !

[cramerhunts]

As a member of the Sportsman's Constituent Group and particularly the head of the sub committee for department issues I have been communicating back and forth with the department on this issue. Below are questions that I asked and the answers that I received back. Please feel free to contact me with additional questions that you would like answered. I really appreciate the department's willingness to work with me on getting answers.

 

Is the proposal being put forth to prevent possible spread of disease or is it due to the supposed increase in success of archery hunters?

 

Disease and wildlife health is the primary issue. We have other ways to regulate harvest.

 

In the preamble that was provided from the department it states that baiting is increasing hunter success and therefore forcing the department to lower tag quantities which negatively affects hunter opportunity and retention. If the hunter success is the reasoning behind the ban on bait where is the numbers obtained from that provide this information? What percentage is too successful? How is it determined what success was a direct result of baiting?

 

Hunt success is certainly a consideration. The implications of the change in hunt success results in limitations on how much hunting permits or season length we can offer. We can detect the change by comparing units where we know baiting is more prevalent with those in which we have little evidence that it occurs substantially, and by looking back through time and seeing the creep in hunt success in these units. White-tail hunt success in Units 22 and 23 are an example. Mule deer seems much less affected, and elk is somewhat intermediate. But hunt success is secondary to the issues of wildlife health.

 

If unnatural congregation of animals is the reason behind the ban on bait why is feed or salt for agriculture or livestock use OK? Do these not still cause unnatural congregation of animals?

 

Livestock operations already have quite a bit of salt across the landscape. Additional salt will influence wildlife movements by giving them more choices and reduce the concentration at the existing salt sources. The same can be said for water developments, in addition to being an essential requirement. Further, we don’t have the authority to regulate the livestock industry, and the use of salt and supplemental feed is important in livestock operations.

 

Have any studies been carried out in Arizona that back up the reasoning behind this proposal or is the department strictly basing it’s reasoning behind studies performed in other states?

 

Disease transmission studies, specifically on the diseases of CWD, brucellosis, and tuberculosis, have not been conducted in Arizona, primarily because those diseases do not occur here. Grain toxicity has been documented in several neighboring states, and this effect is well documented in domestic ungulates within Arizona. The presence of unhealthy toxins (aflatoxin) in wildlife feeds was detected in a study in a southwestern state. The results of the studies that have been conducted are not equivocal. Grain toxicity occurs if a ruminant animal consumes too much high protein food when they are not used to eating it. Disease transmission is greater in locations that concentrate wildlife, be it a natural wintering ground for Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep or a bait pile placed by humans in the woods. People transmit diseases among themselves more frequently in areas of concentration – such as in airports or confined aircraft. We know that this increases risk of disease transmission.

 

In Arizona water would also be a common spot for animals to congregate, especially at drinkers with a small access to the water. This is obviously a necessity yet does this also not pose the same problem that the department is saying bait causes?

 

Water certainly does, but as you note, water is essential. The more water available on the landscape, the less concentrated wildlife are than when water is limited in availability. Also, increasing the distribution of water allows for greater distribution of wildlife on the landscape.

 

In Mr. Wakeling’s comments he says that feed for agriculture or livestock is regulated so why would it not be allowed to be used for the purpose of attracting big game? If ranchers or farmers are still allowed to use it then animals will still congregate unnaturally so why wouldn’t hunters be allowed to use it?

 

Livestock feed is regulated, wildlife feed has fewer restrictions currently. While there is the ability to increase regulation on feed quality that is intended for wildlife, that only addressed one issue (specific toxins, like aflatoxin, in wildlife feed). This does not address grain toxicity (too much protein) or disease transmission.

 

Assuming that CWD is the main disease that the department is trying to prevent, what significance does baiting have as the biggest threat area is the border with Utah where little to no baiting is being conducted?

 

Baiting influences the likelihood for spread of virtually all diseases. While prevention is optimal, limiting or reducing the spread once a disease is detected is also a goal which we strive for with the proposed regulation.

[ready2hunt]

Thank you for posting this up. Very good responses.

 

Having said that, is it just me or does it sound like the dept. is saying that (in addition to not being able to regluate the livestock feed) they feel that more salt in the feild would lessen animal congregation as there would be more to choose from? Did I read that right?

[123456]

I gotta say, after reading G&F's responses to questions, I am starting to lean more toward the where the heck is the evidence? argument. I don't rally care if they ban it or not, but I agree that more evidence is needed. Seems they are using the increased harvest of whitetail with bows in 22 and 23 as a fallback on, just in case we do not buy the CWD argument. Starting to sound more like a politcal event rather than a scientific event.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

So if we did spread multiple piles of feed.......all over the place, less opportunity for the deer to congregate????

 

Interesting info thanks for sharing that with us.

[JLW]

thanks for posting that cramerhunts!

 

james

[Scooter]

so it would seem that flipping this idea of banning bait 180 degrees and requiring that all hunters use bait you would get the same result... would it not? more bait/water/salt = less congregation of animals.

[520HUNT]

I think the only disease we as hunters should be worried about is the one our Game and Fish department has: Foot in Mouth Disease

[AZ8]

I'm not here to defend the Department. However, what's wrong with them being proactive with CWD? As the agency that's paid to manage Arizona's wildlife, my guess is they have the most experience with such matters. I understand a majority of us are passionate when it comes to the outdoors. We think we have an understanding, but in reality, we are misguided by our own biases and passions. It sure seems like this forum is full of experienced biologists, range managers, animal cognition researchers and food science graduates.

 

Not too long ago, Arizona lakes were free of Quagga Mussels. Won't be long before this invasive species will be in all the lakes. Too late to prevent this. So again, how can you fault the Department for being proactive when it comes to CWD? To say it will never happen in Arizona is foolishness.

 

Nature has a funny way of surprising us.

 

Just one man's opinion.

[wardsoutfitters]

Could the fact that 23-24 getting more coues deer hunters be due to more archery hunters in the feild and closer to big cities and how about the fact that there are some giant coues in these units?

 

and he states this answer to Phils question.

Have any studies been carried out in Arizona that back up the reasoning behind this proposal or is the department strictly basing it’s reasoning behind studies performed in other states?

 

Disease transmission studies, specifically on the diseases of CWD, brucellosis, and tuberculosis, have not been conducted in Arizona, primarily because those diseases do not occur here.

[PRDATR]

Close to half a century of hunting under my belt and a lot of memories and a lot of tag soup. I watch hunting shows where folks pay to hunt bears in Manitoba from a treestand over a barrel of honey and donuts put out by a guide.

Hey if thats what works for you go for it. Hunting is a thirst an obsession if you will and everyone does it for different reasons, all with a goal in mind.

Sometimes it's just commaradie and nether a shot fired equating to a successful hunt. Other times it may be helping someone be successful to filll that nitch.

Until this topic came up I had no idea that people actually baited deer. I imagine that unless you are physically challenged there really isn't a reason in my mind to be baiting anything unless it is to cull a problem predator.

My ability to find game, if it is there, has not seemed to be an issue. I will get some flak for this but I find it to completely unethical to be baiting deer and unecessary for any hunter worth his/her salt (no pun intended). They are out there, go put in the time, pattern and find them. Yeah it's work but it should be and game cameras and bait need to be stopped.

Spending money and hours carting feed into the field is in no way shape or form beneficial to to portraying us in a positive light. Deer are in the cornfields after the midwest after the harvest with no ill effects so eating corn aparently isn't a problem for them physically.

Spin it to your advantage but this us against them mentality is really pathetic.

I can't oppose something that was never needed to begin with for an able bodied hunter.

I look upon baiting deer the same as some guy putting sleeping pills in a girls drink.

[4Falls]

As I stated earlier in the thread, Ive never shot anything off of bait. Mainly because I dont have the time to maintain a bait site. Ive hunted and killed over water which I guess is the same thing. Though Im starting to get confused on that too.

 

But what I really dont understand, and I mean no disrespect by this, is why the the guys who dont like baiting are so against those that do? If your out there stalking your game one on one and enjoying it who cares if some other guy is sitting on a pile of corn? Wouldn't that be just one less guy out there potentially blowing your stalk?

[520HUNT]

I just don't understand why the G&F department would introduce such a devicive issue into our state. It is hard enough getting hunters together to fight for our rights, but now the G&F is helping tear us apart?

[THE RIFLEMAN]

Man you guys just want to have it your way. You want to do things the easiest way possible. Go buy some venison!

And you get angry when your easy ways are threatened. Go throw some blinds in a tank. It'll make you feel better.

You guys amaze me.

 

After 6 posts I am sure the feeling is farily mutual.............we buy beef, well, at least me and the mouse in my pocket.

 

I think most have stated that if there was substanial information, data, etc regarding this measure here in the state of Az they would listen to the proposal.

 

From your post it is more of a "have it your way." approach.

I suspect tat Jbird and Str8snot are related .... Posibly cousins! Two tools sharing a box!