AZGFD Rule Changes

[THE RIFLEMAN]

Straight Shot quote:

 

They are not taking away hunting this idea is not the first step to do so............

 

But what if?????

 

Granted might not be the first step.......but it is something that can legally be done now, and can be taken away.......so it is a step.......of taking away...........

 

And we may have little disease and no CWD in our herds now .....

 

But What if?????

 

What if they never transplanted Elk from Yellow Stone in 1913 after hunting Took out the last of the Native Elk in AZ..... I am sorry but I have a little more faith that the majority of those in G&F that they are trying to their job to manage our herds and keep our sport and right to harvest for meat Alive... That does not mean I agree with everything, and many things that have happened within the political realm of commission when it comes to revenue, the general fund, to the wolf program I disagree with... But if regulations were not put in place in the early 1900's the then current trends in hunting would have destroyed most big game herds and we would all be playing golf today and not enjoying the ability to harvest from our beautiful forest lands.

PLEEZ GO PLAY GOLF YOU FIT IN THERE!!!!!

[Str8Shot]

Straight Shot quote:

 

They are not taking away hunting this idea is not the first step to do so............

 

But what if?????

 

Granted might not be the first step.......but it is something that can legally be done now, and can be taken away.......so it is a step.......of taking away...........

 

And we may have little disease and no CWD in our herds now .....

 

But What if?????

 

What if they never transplanted Elk from Yellow Stone in 1913 after hunting Took out the last of the Native Elk in AZ..... I am sorry but I have a little more faith that the majority of those in G&F that they are trying to their job to manage our herds and keep our sport and right to harvest for meat Alive... That does not mean I agree with everything, and many things that have happened within the political realm of commission when it comes to revenue, the general fund, to the wolf program I disagree with... But if regulations were not put in place in the early 1900's the then current trends in hunting would have destroyed most big game herds and we would all be playing golf today and not enjoying the ability to harvest from our beautiful forest lands.

PLEEZ GO PLAY GOLF YOU FIT IN THERE!!!!!

 

Wow... I am sure it is too much to ask for a smart intellectual commit from someone as ignorant as you come off to be, and not for just this one thread... It is this kind of ignorant arrogance that is as much as a disease in the Hunting community as the idea that a new regulation and ban might create a divide amongst hunters...

 

I am sure that you would be a better bowler .... bigger ball and a much shorter lane .... kind of the same reason you probably need Bait ... not so good at long shots and smaller target

[wardsoutfitters]

Come on guys lets keep the personal attacks caged up , Lets work on the issue at hand!!

Here is a responce to the matter at hand from AZGFD

 

Please note the response below regarding the proposed rulemaking for baiting. Again this is a proposal, the commission has started the process; the final rulemaking will be done in January with an opportunity to provide comment up ‘till then. I’ve plagiarized heavily from Mr. Wakeling our Game Branch Chief.

 

The Department has relied on published research conducted by wildlife disease experts to formulate the recommendations on baiting. A great resource on this topic is the Southeastern Wildlife Disease Cooperative. Baiting concentrates wildlife which can increase spread of communicable diseases, often contains toxins (like aflatoxin) because wildlife feed is not regulated as livestock feed, and can result in death for individuals that are not acclimated to high protein diets. While salt may concentrate some wildlife, it does not create the other two problems noted. Also, because salt is so common on the landscape currently, additional salt will not create greater concentrations of wildlife than is currently the case. This is the rationale for the Department’s proposal. The proposed rulemaking is attached.

 

[hoghntr]

I have a hard time believing that critters will be in harms way by disease more at a feeder than they will at a local waterhole.

 

i can say that as a disabled vet with baiting being banned and with all the road closures you can probably count me out on all future hunts.. So thanks Arizona the state which i am a Native of for taking away the outdoors i once knew so well!

[bowhunter4life]

Come on guys lets keep the personal attacks caged up , Lets work on the issue at hand!!

Here is a responce to the matter at hand from AZGFD

 

Please note the response below regarding the proposed rulemaking for baiting. Again this is a proposal, the commission has started the process; the final rulemaking will be done in January with an opportunity to provide comment up ‘till then. I’ve plagiarized heavily from Mr. Wakeling our Game Branch Chief.

 

The Department has relied on published research conducted by wildlife disease experts to formulate the recommendations on baiting. A great resource on this topic is the Southeastern Wildlife Disease Cooperative. Baiting concentrates wildlife which can increase spread of communicable diseases, often contains toxins (like aflatoxin) because wildlife feed is not regulated as livestock feed, and can result in death for individuals that are not acclimated to high protein diets. While salt may concentrate some wildlife, it does not create the other two problems noted. Also, because salt is so common on the landscape currently, additional salt will not create greater concentrations of wildlife than is currently the case. This is the rationale for the Department’s proposal. The proposed rulemaking is attached.

 

Steve,

very interesting, I received the same word for word e-mail......

 

"Commissioner Mansell forwarded your comments on to the agency. The Department has relied on published research conducted by wildlife disease experts to formulate the recommendations on baiting. A great resource on this topic is the Southeastern Wildlife Disease Cooperative. Baiting concentrates wildlife which can increase spread of communicable diseases, often contains toxins (like aflatoxin) because wildlife feed is not regulated as livestock feed, and can result in death for individuals that are not acclimated to high protein diets. While salt may concentrate some wildlife, it does not create the other two problems noted. Also, because salt is so common on the landscape currently, additional salt will not create greater concentrations of wildlife than is currently the case. This is the rationale for the Department’s proposal."

[lonne]

So shouldn't new regulations be focused on companies making wildlife feed instead of banning baiting for hunters?

[jnobleinaz]

Straight Shot quote:

 

They are not taking away hunting this idea is not the first step to do so............

 

But what if?????

 

Granted might not be the first step.......but it is something that can legally be done now, and can be taken away.......so it is a step.......of taking away...........

 

And we may have little disease and no CWD in our herds now .....

 

But What if?????

 

What if they never transplanted Elk from Yellow Stone in 1913 after hunting Took out the last of the Native Elk in AZ..... I am sorry but I have a little more faith that the majority of those in G&F that they are trying to their job to manage our herds and keep our sport and right to harvest for meat Alive... That does not mean I agree with everything, and many things that have happened within the political realm of commission when it comes to revenue, the general fund, to the wolf program I disagree with... But if regulations were not put in place in the early 1900's the then current trends in hunting would have destroyed most big game herds and we would all be playing golf today and not enjoying the ability to harvest from our beautiful forest lands.

PLEEZ GO PLAY GOLF YOU FIT IN THERE!!!!!

 

Wow... I am sure it is too much to ask for a smart intellectual commit from someone as ignorant as you come off to be, and not for just this one thread... It is this kind of ignorant arrogance that is as much as a disease in the Hunting community as the idea that a new regulation and ban might create a divide amongst hunters...

 

I am sure that you would be a better bowler .... bigger ball and a much shorter lane .... kind of the same reason you probably need Bait ... not so good at long shots and smaller target

 

I have read all your posts and one thing is clear they are all based on opinions that are from other states. We have no where near the deer in this state. If ranchers put out salt why cant I. How can yu tell me that the animals are not licking the ranchers salt and communicating this imaginary disease that we have no data on or a name for. heck there is sure a lot more bacteria and other garbage in the water they drink. This is a complete joke. Hunting is not a right it is a privilege or maybe you didnt know that. Once any privilege is gone it will never come back. I wish it was a right and then we could tell them kiss our A**. I dont and never will understand the oooh your not a real hunter because. That is why we have archery, handgun, muzzleloader, compound bows, long bows, recurve bow, open sights, scoped rifles, long range rifles, and the ability to hunt over bait or put out a salt lick. Many methods whose to say it is fair to take one away from a crock theory that az will spread disease with a salt block.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

The Facts....

 

I know we all get charged up and mad.... I know we all want to put emotion into it... But the facts is where the truth lies.

 

1) There is NO data collected in the state of AZ to support a ban on baiting or anything of the sort.

2) AZGFD is taking a fast track approach to this issue (during hunting season) with very little effort to inform any of us about the “new rule”.

3) All the “data” AZGFD claims to be using in from states that have 20+ deer per square mile. Fact: Other than residential areas there are no deer numbers that approach this in AZ.

4) Water sources concentrates game in Arizona FAR more than any bait source PERIOD… water is our rarest commodity.

5) We do not have the winters that CWD states have, we don’t have “deer yards”, and we do not have major migration routes that concentrate hundreds of animals per sq. mile.

6) We as hunters must realize that supporting “how” others hunt and their personal right to do so is a good thing… especially if it has little effect on you as hunter. I mean let’s face it… I dislike the guys that think camping right where the elk like to rut is a Major Jackarse move, but it is a free country and I certainly don’t want another rule to stop them from camping there!

7) Opportunity… The AZGFD dumped tons of tags into the hunts in order to boost “hunter recruitment” and “hunter opportunity”, so why with NO REAL data would we allow them to ramrod a rule through that removes opportunity and recruitment for many hunters???? Specifically: youth, women, elderly, and handicapped… WHY!!!??

8) Economic impacts: How many $$$ are generated for the AZGFD, local businesses, and households in AZ due to resident and NON-Resident hunters who use this method?? This number is HUGE… Every small, local archery shop, feed store, Sportsman’s Warehouse, Cabela’s, Bass Pro Shop, Wal-Mart, etc will take a hit as well. Check out the “bait” isle at any of these places and you will see how it will affect the especially the Small Mom & Pops shops…. And I know many of you are also anti-guide, but many folks feed families & pay mortgages by working in the outdoors and some of those guys will also take a hit.

9) AZGFD must do its “Due Diligence” when making a rule change that affects this many different facets of the hunting community. They have changed their stance on why this rule should be in place every time we hit them with a bullet point that they can’t defend. A rule like this requires DATA, and they have provided NONE that applies specifically to our state and our herd numbers.

10) Unity: It is our responsibility as tax payers, who pay the salaries of our government, to force them to Prove the point and not just make more rules on whimsical emotion… We are seeing it not only at the state level but also at a national and global level and if we as Americans don’t put on the breaks it will lead to tyranny….

[ready2hunt]

A couple people have asked why salt is fine. Salt kills most pathogens and bacteria/virus by drawing the water out and drying them...thus killing them. CWD is categorized as a piron (See CDC for write up) or infectious protein so its in a category of it's own...I honestly cannot find any literature on whether or not sodium choride kills proteins. This is why I don't get why G&F are trying to write this off as science and factual. Not trying to sound like "johnny know it all" but thought it would be useful.

 

Str8shot...you keep mentioning all these study you have read through. Can you please share some of these with us? I am having trouble finding any.

 

On another topic....just something to think about. I spoke with an a gentleman I know (name will be withheld) who works in our state legislature. I brought up this topic as he love the outdoors but I really don't think he hunts very much and his response to this baiting thing is very interesting... I will do my best to paraphrase.

 

He said that I have to keep in mind that any state funded position involves politics. Whether it be the Govenor or even the captial Janitor. He said politicians must justify their importance to keep their job. Thus proposals, bill, laws ect are always being sent out and voted upon. G&F is political as well and are employed/paid full time so I need to keep that in mind.

 

He then said that CA has some of the most ridiculous laws in the country and always have more & more on the ballot each year.....why?? because they are employeed full time. He asked, how else could they [CA] justify to the state/people paying for their salaries 365 days a year?

 

He also asked if I find it interesting that our state legislators are paid part time to propose law but other law making agencies in AZ are paid full time? He said expect to see useless laws come through, not that G&F are trying to justify their pay but that is the nature of their job. His take on it is that G&F are not actually worried about CWD especially since their is not factual evidence of how it is spread but that this is more of an attempt to "cover your butt" per say. They are likely more worried about what would happen to their jobs if CWD makes it way into the state and they did not do anything to prevent it.

 

His final comments were the best....he said politicians love people who are partially active...those who go with flow and vote without doing any research. It makes their jobs that much easier so get out and make your voice heard. No politician likes opposition as this is how they lose their jobs but that is how you weed out the effective rep vs uneffective ones.

 

 

 

Like a true politican he would not give a "for or against" answer but I did think he had a unique perspective.

[520HUNT]

A couple people have asked why salt is fine. Salt kills most pathogens and bacteria/virus by drawing the water out and drying them...thus killing them. CWD is categorized as a piron (See CDC for write up) or infectious protein so its in a category of it's own...I honestly cannot find any literature on whether or not sodium choride kills proteins.

 

I think this was said before, but if salt kills most bacteria/pathogens... why not just coat all corn and other feed in a salt solution and that would solve this whole problem. If that was really their concern this would be a much easier Fix instead of pissing off a bunch of hunters. Plus the deer would be able to get there feed and salt at the same time.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Based on the "Political" take on it above I totally agree! Job validation... However this is very much about them having ZERO data or proof that we have this to worry about in AZ.... Therefore at this time we have no reason to even discuss a rule change of this nature...

[Jbird]

Man you guys just want to have it your way. You want to do things the easiest way possible. Go buy some venison!

And you get angry when your easy ways are threatened. Go throw some blinds in a tank. It'll make you feel better.

You guys amaze me.

[reganranch]

Man you guys just want to have it your way. You want to do things the easiest way possible. Go buy some venison!

And you get angry when your easy ways are threatened. Go throw some blinds in a tank. It'll make you feel better.

You guys amaze me.

 

Yeah i bet your a genuine North American Hunter, probably realistically a Gatherer.......... but here your just trolling.

 

[4Falls]

So I guess the only way to be a true ethical sportsman is to do things the hardest way possible.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Man you guys just want to have it your way. You want to do things the easiest way possible. Go buy some venison!

And you get angry when your easy ways are threatened. Go throw some blinds in a tank. It'll make you feel better.

You guys amaze me.

 

After 6 posts I am sure the feeling is farily mutual.............we buy beef, well, at least me and the mouse in my pocket.

 

I think most have stated that if there was substanial information, data, etc regarding this measure here in the state of Az they would listen to the proposal.

 

From your post it is more of a "have it your way." approach.