AZGFD Rule Changes

[ready2hunt]

I see where a lot of people come from when they say its crazy to think that this is going to lead to a ban on hunting but seriously...where do you draw the line? I never thought I would see the day wolves were brought back in force into AZ but that happened. You think CA hunters planned on on their restrictions? Do you really think those restrictions happened over night or did it take careful planning and legislation? Do you think that from one day to the next that Chicago passed handgun restrictions or what the political climate right? (and guns are apart of our constitution- but I know...different topic)

 

Of course I do not believe that G&F have the ultimate goal of eliminating hunting however as mentioned by a fellow member they do have a job to do and this proposal I believe is a poor job. (A cook has a job....doesn't mean he/she is a great cook)

 

A couple of our fellow CWT members say its no big deal to them yet I see everyone getting pretty defensive. Yes, I am defensive as well. I will defend my right to bait game (even though I don't actually hunt over bait) because it is my right as a hunter. I don't know where this attitude of superiority comes from when people say your not a real hunter if you use bait or it is not fair chase.

 

Life is not fair, hence I have never won the lottery or the AZ super raffle. Some hunters liken baiting or food plots to laziness. If I hire a guide service does that make me less of a hunter because I am not doing the scouting and I am depending on someone to tell me where to go??? I think not. If my dad is old and tired and can't walk a canyon is he any less of a hunter when I walk it for him in hopes that he sees an animal I scare up to shoot? I am still forcing an animal into that area....I am doing it in hopes that it is taken and tagged...the animals would not have otherwise been in his path were it not for my influence.

 

To the outfitter who started this topic- my hat is tipped to you brother! Not only are you supporting your family but you are livin' the dream. I hope to run an outfitting company one day and will use any legal manner to take game with my clients as this is what they are paying for and expect. Long live capitalism haha!

 

If baiting is outlawed then I will continue to hunt, continue to love it and I will continue to share it with my family but that doesn't mean that I will not do my part to keep unnecessary laws from being passed. I am not worried about my tags going unfilled....I have a hard enough time as it is haha. I am more worried about my kids not being able to experience the joy of hunting as I have.

[reganranch]

That's all I have right now to say about this ordeal. I'm waiting to finish up Population Dynamics in my Ecology before I write my email to G&F or post my response to the thread.

[Redman]

I sent my feedback to the Game and Fish, I strongly oppose the addition of the language.

 

My reasoning for opposing the additional rules is because the primary reason given by the G&F to add the rule is not supported by science .

 

Rules simply cannot be added under a premises that is not accurate.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

I see no problem either. God forbid someone have to actually go hunt an animal to kill it.

 

AverageJoe, please don't think I am singling you out, I am quoting you because your statement is the root of what will cause outdoor enthusiasts to eventually lose all our rights, in this state and all states. The hunters and fisherman didn't fight for the trappers and we lost leg holds and more. In Cali. they lose a bit more each year as they divide and conquer outdoor enthusiasts. So please read on and consider ALL the ramifications of having more un-needed laws rammed down our throats.

 

 

 

 

My problem with it two fold...

 

#1.... I hate Big government getting bigger. They are constantly thinking up new and better/ways to regulate EVERY thing in our lives... WE don't need "LAW MAKERS"... we have plenty of laws already!!

 

#2... How is it my right to define ANYONE's idea of hunting as "is" or "isn't" really hunting... Is sitting water, really hunting? Is bumbling around in the woods hoping to kick something up, really hunting? Is glassing something up with high powered optics and chasing it down, really hunting? Is hunting with 3,4,5, or 10 of your family/friends, really hunting? H E L L YES!!! ....and so is sitting over BAIT... it is REAL for someone!!! We are all individuals with individual trophy expectations, weapons, styles, equipment, and physical limits. The ban will affect my overall success in hunting very little, however as I get older that ban may affect it greatly. It will certainly affect the 10-18 year old hunters that we bring into bow hunting. It will affect the 75%+ of the women we bring into bow hunting. It will affect a good many elderly bow hunters. Let's face it folks... Success is key to cultivating and retaining hunters!! Even showing kids a time in the woods over bait where they don't kill is a huge win if something comes in!! The smiles and good times that I have witnessed by others, old and young alike in part due to some form of "bait" makes my heart warm. Some very Hardcore (Baton death march) hunters that I know today were made into hunting junkies at a young age due to a form of "bait" hunting.

 

This is not a CWD or any health related issue... there is NO data what-so-ever that AZGFD has collected in this state to support the ban. The only "data" they have is the mandatory reporting of deer harvested by bow hunters and that several units have a higher harvest than they want. Couple this with a self-righteous agenda by a few key figures in the AZGFD and you have a trumped up, BS rule that will affect ALL hunters more than we think!

 

If they are sooo truely worried about CWD they would focusing their efforts on importation of meats into our state and the migration of herds into and out of our state... THIS IS NOT A DISEASE ISSUE.... IT IS AN ATTACK ON HUNTERS RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS. Will your favorite hunting tactic be next on the chopping block??? Wise up and Take a stand with your fellow hunters!!!!! AZGFD preaches the want to increase "OPPORTUNITY" and when we fired back that they were taking away opportunity, only then did they drum up the CWD idea... it is an AGENDA driven by a few to hamstring success rates, Period.

 

Keep in mind that at a Federal level we have laws inplace that forbid inportation of non- native plant species (seeds) onto our forests and well as littering laws... Sooo if they just inforce the laws we already have in place the "MASTER BAITERS" are already in violation. WE DON'T NEED MORE LAWS/RULES!!!!! UNITE AND FIGHT!!!!

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Once again, I would like to see the statistics that support "high archery success". I still havent seen any actual data from AZGFD that is showing where archery is harvesting too many deer. I need to see some data showing this to be the case before I would support banning salt/minerals..........Allen Taylor..........p.s. I also would like to see statistical data showing where there is an increase in CWD due to salt/minerals.........

 

Go read hunt arizona 2012. Shows statistics on archery harvest from G&F. The amount of whitetail taken by archery has almost doubled since 2003. Mule deer has stayed around the same, whitetail has greatly increased. Just so happens that they are the animal that seems to respond to baiting the best.

 

A simple harvest objective in units as needed, just like bear hunting would solve any concern of over harvesting by achery hunters while removing Zero opportunity to hunt other units.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

And lets face it without mandatory reporting harvest numbers are not really there to use as statistics in the first place.....................

[AverageJoe]

While i agree with you on most things coues n sheep, i disagree a little on your above post. What i see is the cause if us hunters losing our rights is the abuse of our current rights. People blazing new roads or driving off road to fit their needs caused the forest service to put more restrictions on us. Granted it is not all or only hunters that do that. People shooting and leaving their trash and brass all over the desert around phoenix caused people to lose the ability to target shoot. (i think we all can agree that 'they' are not going to just enforce the current laws, it is easier for them to make new laws that forbid it.) I walked one ridge this august and saw over 10 piles of corn and salt, there were 4 or 5 ridges all running adjacent to one another and i didnt walk them all. That is where i came up with the magical '50' number that so many on here called me names for. Guess none of you have ever made an exxaggerated claim before. Over use of bait will cause us to lose our baiting priveledge. And is causing us to lose it.

 

There is a term called 'policing your own' that needs to apply here. I agree i dont like add'l regs and laws but when a group fails to police their own someone outside of that group needs to step in and do it for them. There are a lot of good people and hunters out ther but unfortunately there are a lot of bad hunters out there that ruin it for the rest of us.

 

For the record i do not have anything against people that use bait, just would like to see it used less on public land. I have tried using bait before but decided that form of hunting wasnt for me. I would like to encourage hunters to learn to pattern deer in their natural environment and sit an area you know they will be crossing where their natural food source is than to throw out an unnatural food source in hopes of luring them in.

 

Didnt mean to ruffle so many feathers with my original post, just voiced my opinion with perhaps a bit of frustration over this last season.

[loco4coues]

Is there a link to the Game and Fish website where this issue is discussed? Also, is there a specific email address that our comments need to be sent to? Any of this information would be appreciated. Thanks

[reganranch]

Is there a link to the Game and Fish website where this issue is discussed? Also, is there a specific email address that our comments need to be sent to? Any of this information would be appreciated. Thanks

 

+1 It would be a great idea to post here, and also a new thread with just the email address and contact info for individuals to find it first hand in addition to page 7 of this thread.

[Sneaker]

If the department thinks, and could prove, that baiting was making success rates too high, and that too many deer were being killed based on the actual reports and survey numbers, then I would be ok with them decreasing season lengths. I think that is the best way to go. The same amount of people still get to hunt, they just have to get it done in a shorter amount of time, and therefore success rates would go back down.

With baiting with actual food, I can see how there could be concerns with herd health as the food is not natural to their diet. There is no way the EVERY substance that EVERY hunter has ever put out has been good for EVERY animal that has ingested it. It is really getting popular to bait the last few years, and I think it needs to be addressed, but I think it needs to be done very carefully. And I would think putting out salt wouldd always be ok, there are natural salt deposit mineral licks all over in the first place, and it is pretty well documented that salt and minerals are not harmful.

[DesertBull]

While i agree with you on most things coues n sheep, i disagree a little on your above post. What i see is the cause if us hunters losing our rights is the abuse of our current rights. People blazing new roads or driving off road to fit their needs caused the forest service to put more restrictions on us. Granted it is not all or only hunters that do that. People shooting and leaving their trash and brass all over the desert around phoenix caused people to lose the ability to target shoot. (i think we all can agree that 'they' are not going to just enforce the current laws, it is easier for them to make new laws that forbid it.)

 

I agree, but most of this is an enforcement of current law problem that adding more laws to will not solve, just like you said What makes us think they will enforce the new laws when rarely enforce the current ones?

[JLW]

. In response to this matter please send a e-mail to Celeste Cook [CCook@azgfd.gov]

 

 

Is there a link to the Game and Fish website where this issue is discussed? Also, is there a specific email address that our comments need to be sent to? Any of this information would be appreciated. Thanks

[loco4coues]

Thanks JLW. Email sent

[Redman]

I also sent to: rulemaking@azgfd.gov and CCook@azgfd.gov

[Redman]

While i agree with you on most things coues n sheep, i disagree a little on your above post. What i see is the cause if us hunters losing our rights is the abuse of our current rights. People blazing new roads or driving off road to fit their needs caused the forest service to put more restrictions on us. Granted it is not all or only hunters that do that. People shooting and leaving their trash and brass all over the desert around phoenix caused people to lose the ability to target shoot. (i think we all can agree that 'they' are not going to just enforce the current laws, it is easier for them to make new laws that forbid it.) I walked one ridge this august and saw over 10 piles of corn and salt, there were 4 or 5 ridges all running adjacent to one another and i didnt walk them all. That is where i came up with the magical '50' number that so many on here called me names for. Guess none of you have ever made an exxaggerated claim before. Over use of bait will cause us to lose our baiting priveledge. And is causing us to lose it.

 

There is a term called 'policing your own' that needs to apply here. I agree i dont like add'l regs and laws but when a group fails to police their own someone outside of that group needs to step in and do it for them. There are a lot of good people and hunters out ther but unfortunately there are a lot of bad hunters out there that ruin it for the rest of us.

 

For the record i do not have anything against people that use bait, just would like to see it used less on public land. I have tried using bait before but decided that form of hunting wasnt for me. I would like to encourage hunters to learn to pattern deer in their natural environment and sit an area you know they will be crossing where their natural food source is than to throw out an unnatural food source in hopes of luring them in.

 

Didnt mean to ruffle so many feathers with my original post, just voiced my opinion with perhaps a bit of frustration over this last season.

 

Hey Joe,

 

Don't take this as an attack.... but does it bother you that the G&F is making a rule based on data that is totally fictitious....

 

The point is, with the rule change, another "right" is lost.....not only for those that abuse or break the law, but even for those that follow the law.... (like your comment on target shooting... I am sure a good percentage of those who target shot don't hunt... and those that do hunt or those that picked up after themselves can no longer shoot legally).