123456 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 Once again, I would like to see the statistics that support "high archery success". I still havent seen any actual data from AZGFD that is showing where archery is harvesting too many deer. I need to see some data showing this to be the case before I would support banning salt/minerals..........Allen Taylor..........p.s. I also would like to see statistical data showing where there is an increase in CWD due to salt/minerals......... Go read hunt arizona 2012. Shows statistics on archery harvest from G&F. The amount of whitetail taken by archery has almost doubled since 2003. Mule deer has stayed around the same, whitetail has greatly increased. Just so happens that they are the animal that seems to respond to baiting the best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 Of course the amount of Coues deer killed from 2003 has doubled. Look at how many more people are hunting Coues deer now. This site has gone from a few hundred to a few (or more) thousand. Of course the number of animals killed have increased. More hunters in the field, more stuff is going to die. Simple as that. To blame that on baiting is ludacris, and unsupported. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coueshunter Report post Posted October 8, 2012 123456: I think you are not understanding what I am saying. If you read through the data, you will see there is nowhere near an "overall success rate" of over 20% on over the counter archery. 1. My simple point is for AZGFD to indicate what success percentage they are managing to and then if we are exceeding the management goal then adjustment is necessary. 2. If CWD can be shown to increase due to salt, minerals, corn, feeding, show me the data so we can adjust/modify the law. I would like AZGFD to have a public "open question/answer period" where the sportsmen/sportswomen can express their views about this subject..............Allen............. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
123456 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 If you read one of my post above, I said baiting is not the main reason. It is just an easy way to cut back the #. If you do not think it will result in less deer being killed you are in denial. Maybe not a significant # less, but none the less it will be less. If we keep at this rate, seasons are going to have to be shortened. Something has to give. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coueshunter Report post Posted October 8, 2012 123456, I am not arguing the issue one way or the other. AZGFD has certain benchmarks they use to manage wildlife. I would just like to see from them what data is supporting a "overharvest" situation and what are they considering overharvest %. Back a few years ago, some of the same questions were asked of AZGFD regarding the doe permits on the Kaibab. Since that dialog, AZGFD has revised some of the prior "management practices" to reflect what we were seeing. So in conclusion, I just want to find out from them 1. what is their harvest objective % 2. show the data to support this reaction. Never once said which side of the issue I am on, just want to ensure that AZGFD is using sound science............Allen........... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
123456 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 If you strongly believe that baiting needs to stay, Make sure you let your commision know about it. The worst thing someone can do is sit back and let something go, that they feel strong about. I personally don't care one way or the other. If it stays legal, I will continue to use it, if it does not, no big deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wardsoutfitters Report post Posted October 8, 2012 If you strongly believe that baiting needs to stay, Make sure you let your commision know about it. The worst thing someone can do is sit back and let something go, that they feel strong about. I personally don't care one way or the other. If it stays legal, I will continue to use it, if it does not, no big deal. Well said Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
123456 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 123456, I am not arguing the issue one way or the other. AZGFD has certain benchmarks they use to manage wildlife. I would just like to see from them what data is supporting a "overharvest" situation and what are they considering overharvest %. Back a few years ago, some of the same questions were asked of AZGFD regarding the doe permits on the Kaibab. Since that dialog, AZGFD has revised some of the prior "management practices" to reflect what we were seeing. So in conclusion, I just want to find out from them 1. what is their harvest objective % 2. show the data to support this reaction. Never once said which side of the issue I am on, just want to ensure that AZGFD is using sound science............Allen........... I agree 100%. They should show and or state their #'s. Kaibab doe #'s, now there is another terrible subject. I would love to know what they consider a healthy buck to doe ratio in the BAB! I have heard a few different #'s and think they are waaaaay to high. The lack of rut challengers is crazy. Not uncommon to see 2x3 buck with 20 does on late hunt. No competion for does up there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coueshunter Report post Posted October 9, 2012 12345, part of the kaibab problem stems from bad science in the past. there were way to many does being killed because the thought back then was that the winter range could not support the deer numbers. currently with the doe harvests down, there should be an increase in buck fawns and we will see more mature bucks. p.s. i have been on the late west side hunt the past two years and personally have seen alot of good bucks. hopefully this year is even better.....allen.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
520HUNT Report post Posted October 9, 2012 Our G&F department has lost their respect for us as hunters. This is a money game, and not much else really matters to them. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jnobleinaz Report post Posted October 9, 2012 Any ban on any privileges we have now that gets taken away is wrong. Not everyone uses them but that doesn't mean because YOU don't means it should be taken away from those that do. My older brother lives in california and it is a fricken joke. This is the first step into taking our assets away. Some of you may think you are HARD CORE and say I dont need that or use it. Well what if there was something you did and they wanted to take it away. I dont believe you would be saying what you are saying now. Next it will be taking turreted scopes away, trail cameras, atv's etc. If an inch is given a foot will be taken. Pull your heads out and unite. Anyone that agrees with this is a complete moron. Ya thats right. I'm a little fired up after reading all the bs posts on this and cant actually understand what goes into some peoples head sometimes. Do i bait now . No I tried putting corn out in 2008, didnt work. Do I put salt blocks out, yes. Do I want either of these options ever taken from me no. Am i mentally coherent, yes. live strong hunt long bruthas. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swivelhead Report post Posted October 9, 2012 Baiting is gone. No big deal, gave up on G&F when they made my chute plane worthless. lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reganranch Report post Posted October 9, 2012 “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” Benjamin Franklin 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scooter Report post Posted October 9, 2012 I grew up in Western New York- NY state didn't allow baiting... No big deal- because there were TONS of deer and small areas in which to hunt them. You always saw deer everywhere. Here, in AZ that is just not the case. There are not as many deer and there is TONS of acreage in which they can roam. Personally, I think that baiting is okay and does not interfere with the spirit of hunting. For as long as man has walked this earth he has used every bit of brain power to his advantage in a quest to put meat on the table. Baiting is just part of the hunt. It is one of those genius ideas that a caveman came up with at some point to make killing food more efficient. If you are limited to 1 deer per calendar year, and you have to pay for that tag (sometimes multiple tags if you archery hunt) you should be able to use every advantage that a human being can think of to fill the tag you payed for. Now we get into the realm of why AZGFD sells more tags than they want to see filled. I don't agree with the "gambling" method that is used to issue tags. We'd really be up sh*t's creek if people hunted hard and all tagged out! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ready2hunt Report post Posted October 9, 2012 “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” Benjamin Franklin Great quote Tyler. I was wondering when you were going to jump in this haha, your comments crack me up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
