AZGFD Rule Changes

[CouesBaiterJr]

While I don’t have any numbers or hard evidence to support why I believe it is a bad thing to ban baiting, I don’t think it is a good thing. Maybe there are 50 corn piles for every square mile in 23 during the August hunt, and maybe baiting/feeding during those months shouldn’t be allowed. However, when hunting during the winter it is completely different. I’d love to hear about how many “piles of corn” you find there during the winter archery hunts. But you probably don’t know because you’re not out there during those times. Putting out some feed, in my mind does nothing wrong. I don’t put out piles of corn, I’ve read the issues on over feeding corn, but I do put out an assortment of choices for the deer to enjoy. It gives the deer free choice during the time when they are expending the most energy and need supplemental nutrition. Does it hurt them? I don’t think so. Does it give me more opportunity? Maybe, but there is still the issues of getting the wind right, proper positioning to ambush the deer, making an ethical shot, and having the deer come to the spot in the first place. I applaud everyone who can make that spot and stalk archery deer kill, but I also hear a lot of “shot a little back” “tracked for 200 yds” “never found him” etc. With better “opportunity” comes better shots and better judgement of the age of the deer you are taking. Am I going to take a spike or even an 80 – 90 incher? No. I’m looking for mature animals. Will I get to harvest a mature animal every year? No, and I’m okay with that. But with feeding/baiting I am able to better judge what class of deer may be in the area and then decide whether or not to hunt that area. I would like to see just a few of the members here that want a ban on baiting to actually see what type of work and patience is involved. I think most people think that it’s the easiest way to hunt. Are you willing to haul in 50 – 100lbs of feed? Are you willing to haul in your blind or treestand(s) to remote areas? And then sit there for literally hundreds of hours in 20 – 30 degree weather just twiddling your thumbs? I highly doubt it. And its not like this feed is free either, it costs hundreds of dollars to have a good setup. You might spend your dollars on long range optics, countless hours at the range, and lots of time behind some quality glass. I’ll spend mine on some quality feed, comfortable treestands and blinds, and countless hours at the archery range. And if this rule is truly about success rates then change the archery hunts to draw only in more units and reduce the number of rifle tags. As stated above, it’s a pretty weak argument to say it’s about success and limit archery tags when they put out ridiculous amounts of rifle tags but require absolutely no reporting of harvest data from them. And if this rule does go into effect, how is the azgfd going to enforce this?

 

Sorry for the long rant on the first post, but everyone is entitled to their opinion

[venadito]

Thanks alot, Bin Laden!

[DrRx09]

What's Bin Laden have to do with this?

[naturegirl]

I consider myself more of a realist. its just how it all works. I'm not saying I like all of the changes because I don't. I also don't come here to argue /debate like this/ etc. or change anyone's mind. I spoke my thoughts and my opinions. the question was asked and I answered.

[wardsoutfitters]

The fact is that AZGFD is trying to stop a way of hunting that Even POPE AND YOUNG CONSIDER FAIR CHASE. As for 50 piles of corn per sq mile on the ground in 23 in august WTF, I'll call bull crap on that you would be hard pressed to get a deer to eat corn in august with all the fresh feed out there. For all those that don't want to see this change make sure you don’t stop here on this site send those e-mails. I also keep hearing people referring to corn, Let me just say that only 2% of the feed mixture I use is corn.

[DrRx09]

I see no problem either. God forbid someone have to actually go hunt an animal to kill it.

 

what's stopping anyone from doing that with the current rules?

 

50 piles of corn per square mile of public land and a blind or treestand at every pile!

 

where the heck do you see this? I sure as heck don't see any corn piles in the units I hunt.

 

Take a walk around unit 23 in august.

 

Like Stephen said above, that's BS. And if it is true they don't know what they're doing. Deer in August will rarely come to feed when given the natural food that's around. I'd like to see pictures of this so called 50 corn piles per square mile.

[wardsoutfitters]

I see no problem either. God forbid someone have to actually go hunt an animal to kill it.

 

what's stopping anyone from doing that with the current rules?

 

50 piles of corn per square mile of public land and a blind or treestand at every pile!

 

where the heck do you see this? I sure as heck don't see any corn piles in the units I hunt.

 

Take a walk around unit 23 in august.

 

Like Stephen said above, that's BS. And if it is true they don't know what they're doing. Deer in August will rarely come to feed when given the natural food that's around. I'd like to see pictures of this so called 50 corn piles per square mile.

He cant support his comment with pictures because he is just RUNNING HIS NECK.

[CouesBaiterJr]

Let me just say that only 2% of the feed mixture I use is corn.

 

So true, corn is overrated and used by the uninformed. Do some research and some field testing and you'll see that there are many other options that are far superior to corn.

[Guest 300ultramag.]

I dont hunt over bait.

 

but when the day comes and i cant climb the "big boy mountains" anymore,

 

I want the option to do otherwise. Thanks but no thanks.

[Str8Shot]

I see no problem either. God forbid someone have to actually go hunt an animal to kill it.

 

what's stopping anyone from doing that with the current rules?

 

50 piles of corn per square mile of public land and a blind or treestand at every pile!

 

where the heck do you see this? I sure as heck don't see any corn piles in the units I hunt.

 

Take a walk around unit 23 in august.

 

Like Stephen said above, that's BS. And if it is true they don't know what they're doing. Deer in August will rarely come to feed when given the natural food that's around. I'd like to see pictures of this so called 50 corn piles per square mile.

He cant support his comment with pictures because he is just RUNNING HIS NECK.

 

While, I highly question the 50 piles a square mile, I find it disturbing that just because someone does not agree with your practice of baiting and does not care if this Ban is passed, that others here would belittle them in such manners with taunting...

I do not agree with baiting because it is how I was brought up as a Native born Phoenician by a grandfather and father who did not practice baiting, and though I am not sure when the regulation changed baiting was prohibited in AZ for many years and at least through my late Teens..

 

I also do not agree with Baiting because it is putting something ( many types that are no different than putting a bowl of candy in front of your kids) that does not exist in that spot in the games natural habitat. This practice uses the games own biology and behaviors against them by form of conditioning. Much the same way your kids can get addicted to drugs ( and I think most here see illegal drugs as a bad thing)

Now before someone starts talking about calls and scents such as Estrus ... guess what ... they occur in nature and can minimize opportunity as much as they maximize depending on conditions, how many bulls come running to a call in those Dec. Hunts ? and even the proposed change does not inhibit use of call or scents ... so it is kind of a mute point

 

Technology in the tools for method of take only effect each hunter and his personal Ethics , though it may create advantage, that advantage is limited by the Ethics and abilities of each hunter , which we all know are not the same from one to the other

 

I also have read numerous studies from many states(most with better herds populations and opportunities for hunters) that have shown that Bait can increase the spread of disease whether one chooses to believe it or not there is no real evidence stating it does not increase the spread of disease ( we may not worry about CWD here now but what would you think of the possible risk of baiting if the Kaibab Herds suddenly showed cases of CWD or some other disease that could wipe out the herds ) If you were in a locked room for 3 days with 500 people, knowing that 50 had a disease spread by saliva, with your hands tied behind your back and the only option to eat was face first from a trough of food shared by everyone .... would you dive in face first or try to starve out the 3 days? The beauty of that scenario is that as humans we can Think about that choice.... wild game does not have that luxury.

Some studies show Bait can affect heard feeding behaviors, times, movement and even seasonal migrations ... Now anyone can argue with the details of any study but on the flip side there is no conclusive study that confirms baiting public populations of game does not affect any of these findings nor supports that baiting is more beneficial to the herd than to the Hunters.

 

I do believe in closed populations on private land that baiting can allow for proper culling, taking of does, and mature bucks before degress in order to make a stronger herd population, but lets be real, this is not why it is practiced in AZ on Public land where we are not culling out genetics, does or over abundance of smaller bucks.

 

Once again if it did not increase your odds for both quality and opportunity , no one would be spending the $$$ and doing it ... It is as much about increasing your odds over the number of hunters in the field that are not doing it and if every tag holder were to put out multiple bait sites in each unit then you may see that 50 piles of bait per square mile and the advantage would be lost just as much as if you dropped slurry bombers from border to border letting it rain down your bait on the unit...

 

If it Passes , no sweat of my chest ... if it does not pass , no sweat of my chest , but to create and idea that every new regulation or change is some conspiracy theory to further take away a freedom, or liberty is a stretch.... And if you can refute this with evidence from the states that have banned baiting for decades taking away our freedom to hunt.... please do ...

 

Still waiting for a response on the actual numbers of states that have the same baiting laws as AZ ... If I was wrong please share with me where you found different

[Snapshot]

Easy Guys. I think DB was just making a fictional statement about the corn. Just like when we say " It was crowded, and We saw a thousand other hunters during our hunt" Doesn't mean we actually saw that many.

[AZ8]

This thread was started by someone that favors baiting. Some of us that dont care for it are responding accordingly. Nothing more, nothing less. No need to get personal. Otherwsie, don't post such a volatile topic on a public forum.

 

If you're going to yell "fire" in a movie theater....expect a reaction.

[wardsoutfitters]

 

So pertaining to your statment above.

 

The Commission believes that R12-4-303 exists to prohibit devices and methods that either compromise the spirit of fair chase or adversely impact hunter success rates. The recent increase in the use of baiting has resulted in disproportionally high harvest rates among those using this method of hunting. Consequently, the Commission is offering fewer hunting opportunities, which negatively impacts hunter recruitment and retention.

 

The don’t mention the higher success rates due to Rangefinders, turreted scopes, long range shooting. And those stating they are offering fewer tags because of Baiting are also not correct. Again as Arizona hunters we can only harvest one deer a year. They say "Methods the either compromise the spirit of fair chase" If you think Game and fish should tell you how to hunt then, I feel for you. I think they need to look into the fact that deer numbers are going down but harvest percentages for rifle hunters keep climbing if they are truly concerned with managing game then they need to figure that out. We all know the answer but because they are afraid to loose revenue they will never reduce rifle tags, and if they reduce them in one unit they raise them in another

Sorry for getting upset on the previous posts.

[wardsoutfitters]

This thread was started by someone that favors baiting. Some of us that dont care for it are responding accordingly. Nothing more, nothing less. No need to get personal. Otherwsie, don't post such a volatile topic on a public forum.

 

If you're going to yell "fire" in a movie theater....expect a reaction.

 

Just noticed the wounded warrior link on your page... Just helped a soldier last year on one of our hunts, He sat a ground blind over feed because he was missing one leg. No way could he have chased bucks all over the hills.

[willhunt4coues]

From what I take of this issue I would be able to place salt (trace) and not get into any trouble:

 

 

4. For the purposes of this subsection, edible or ingestible substances does not include:

 

b. Salt or salt-based materials produced and manufactured for the livestock industry, or

 

The salt I get is Trace Mineral bagged (which is used for livestock).

 

I don't hunt over my salts all I use it for is to see what is in the area because lets face it one particular buck during the early archery season may not show up but once every week to two weeks.

I do not feel it is right to take away our rights and will be writing an email.