A dilemma requiring some thought... or maybe not.

[Scooter]

This came up in a recent conversation around the water cooler and I wanted to get a few people's take on it...

 

"Individuals participating in an “archery-only” season may possess a non-hunting handgun for personal protection. It is unlawful to take any wildlife with this handgun while participating in an “archery-only” season. For the purposes of this Section, a nonhunting handgun is defined as a handgun with a barrel length of six inches or less that does not have a scope or any type of electronic sight."

 

 

That's the exerpt from the AZGFD regs... If you were to carry a 4" or 5" barrel .22lr pistol without optics during an archery hunt, and you saw a fat, juicy cottontail or a jackrabbit on your direct hike back for lunch you would then legally have to use your bow to kill it? Would it be illegal to put your bow down on the ground and kill it with your .22 pistol? When exactly does your participation in the "archery only" deer season stop and your participation in the rabbit/non-game general season begin???

 

My opinion on this particular regulation is that if you are not shooting at or actively pursuing the animal that the "archery-only" season covers, then it doesn't matter. If you are engaged (lets say in a blind or treestand) hunting the specific "archery-only" animal then you cannot use the pistol for any other purpose than personal protection.

 

Let's see where we can go with this, if anywhere... opinions from all sides welcome!

[ready2hunt]

Not much to think about. It wouldn't make a difference. It is not illegal to have the gun, its illegal to shoot the deer (or any animal out of season) with it.

[verdehunter]

If I were to guess, I'd say that even having the bow on the ground next to you would be considered illegal. You still have the bow in possession and are now hunting with a firearm. I would think the bow would need to be in a case in the vehicle or left at camp. Thats just my take on it.

[JLW]

I keep a blunt tip for rabbits cause I love to shoot my bow.

I would much rather shoot it with my bow as a confidence builder.

pistol for me would be self defense be it a snake lion bear or 2 legged creep!

I don't think that would be an issue as you are not hunting deer with your pistol.

sometimes when we see a coyote mousing or cruising ( during archery deer) we put the stalk on him and try and call him in and if the bow shooter misses then pull out the pistol and drop him. I don't think this is a violation cause we were calling coyotes in between. Say you bow hunt the morning and go coyote calling in the afternoon? You are not actively pursuing deer so shouldn't be a problem.

1 time my brother in law and I were trying to call some foxes during the archery deer hunt. I had a rifle and he had a bow. G&F stopped checked our licenses and the routine questions and said it was sort of a grey area and gave us the stink eye as he didn't approve cause my brother in law had an archery deer tag. He was very professional and gave some friendly advise and he was on his way.

 

James

[reganranch]

Haha do the creep a favor and shoot him with a pistol getting stuck with a broadhead would hurt so much more then a(Saturday night) pistol lol

[Scooter]

I keep a blunt tip for rabbits cause I love to shoot my bow.

I would much rather shoot it with my bow as a confidence builder.

pistol for me would be self defense be it a snake lion bear or 2 legged creep!

I don't think that would be an issue as you are not hunting deer with your pistol.

sometimes when we see a coyote mousing or cruising ( during archery deer) we put the stalk on him and try and call him in and if the bow shooter misses then pull out the pistol and drop him. I don't think this is a violation cause we were calling coyotes in between. Say you bow hunt the morning and go coyote calling in the afternoon? You are not actively pursuing deer so shouldn't be a problem.

1 time my brother in law and I were trying to call some foxes during the archery deer hunt. I had a rifle and he had a bow. G&F stopped checked our licenses and the routine questions and said it was sort of a grey area and gave us the stink eye as he didn't approve cause my brother in law had an archery deer tag. He was very professional and gave some friendly advise and he was on his way.

 

James

 

I also keep 2 Judo points in my quiver for that exact same reason...

[el diablo]

This came up in a recent conversation around the water cooler and I wanted to get a few people's take on it...

 

"Individuals participating in an “archery-only” season may possess a non-hunting handgun for personal protection. It is unlawful to take any wildlife with this handgun while participating in an “archery-only” season. For the purposes of this Section, a nonhunting handgun is defined as a handgun with a barrel length of six inches or less that does not have a scope or any type of electronic sight."

 

 

I'd say if you have your bow, even if you are on your way back to camp, you are still participating in the archery only season and it would be illegal to use your pistol to take any wildlife.

[DCS]

There will be some G&F people have some input on this.I think I will wait and see what they have to offer.

[123456]

REALLY??? Seems pretty black and white to me. Use your bow and kill the da#@ rabbit. Why start a discussion about this. Think about duck hunting, if you are duck hunting, you can not posses lead shot. Even if you are walking back from the tank you just shot ducks on and you are no longer duck hunting, you still can not have leadshot for the quail next to your truck. Shoot them with the legal weapon and ammunition and do not complain about it. Seems that allowing us to carry a firearm for defense was a big win in our direction, and now you want to pick at it. The point of allowing us to carry the pistol is for defense, not because your archery skills are not good enough to kill a rabbit with an arrow.

[Scooter]

REALLY??? Seems pretty black and white to me. Use your bow and kill the da#@ rabbit. Why start a discussion about this. Think about duck hunting, if you are duck hunting, you can not posses lead shot. Even if you are walking back from the tank you just shot ducks on and you are no longer duck hunting, you still can not have leadshot for the quail next to your truck. Shoot them with the legal weapon and ammunition and do not complain about it. Seems that allowing us to carry a firearm for defense was a big win in our direction, and now you want to pick at it. The point of allowing us to carry the pistol is for defense, not because your archery skills are not good enough to kill a rabbit with an arrow.

 

My question was more along the lines of probing folks' opinions on when one is considered participating actively in a hunt for a specific species. If I have an archery only deer, turkey, and bear tag in my license holder along with my license- does that mean I am considered actively pursuing all three? There is some grey area to that blurb from the AZGFD regs and I was trying to get some lively discussion going. I carry a small 9mm concealed just about everywhere and especially during archery hunts, and I can't shoot that thing accurately past 10-15 yards- so for me that ficticious bunny gets a Judo point if he's anywhere within 60. I don't really understand your comment about "pick at it"... I don't think anyone here has done that at all. Maybe I should have used a coyote as the example instead so that it wasn't about the "archery skills not good enough" and more about fur damage.

 

 

Your example of the Duck and Quail situation does parallel the original question. You stated walking back to your truck from a water tank... Yes, in that situation you should only have nontoxic shot. What if you went back to the truck, unloaded your ducks in the cooler, and then wanted to walk the fields for quail? Could you then load up with lead shot and pursue quail/dove and refrain from shooting ducks? Could you shoot those birds on the same tank with the lead shot? Does your truck/camper/tent, etc. constitute a place where your active pursuit of one game animal stops and another begins?

 

Maybe I should state my position more clearly... I'm a pretty staunch liberatarian when it comes to game laws. I really don't think it does the spirit of hunting any good to limit the weapon or try to force-focus the intended game species. I think (only my opinion and I follow all game laws) if you are hunting deer within an archery season, nothing else matters but shooting the DEER with archery gear and if you wanna bring a critter slayer like a .22lr for small game or a varmint rifle with you to knock off a coyote that happens by your path- so be it! As long as you don't shoot the DEER with anything but legal archery gear- then you are good to go. I also think it's bad that you can't just "go hunting" and not specify what exactly you intend to hunt! It's great that you can carry for defense, I would do that any way even if the regs said I couldn't because that's my God-given right to self defense and I'd just fight it in court... Again, nobody is picking on that reg, and I really had no idea that it was such a fight to gain that ability to carry a handgun during archery!

[Scooter]

This came up in a recent conversation around the water cooler and I wanted to get a few people's take on it...

 

"Individuals participating in an “archery-only” season may possess a non-hunting handgun for personal protection. It is unlawful to take any wildlife with this handgun while participating in an “archery-only” season. For the purposes of this Section, a nonhunting handgun is defined as a handgun with a barrel length of six inches or less that does not have a scope or any type of electronic sight."

 

 

I'd say if you have your bow, even if you are on your way back to camp, you are still participating in the archery only season and it would be illegal to use your pistol to take any wildlife.

 

Exactly how I interpret the written law as well... But when exactly does your participation in the archery-only season end? Couldn't someone just say that they were not participating in the deer season and using the bow/handgun combo to participate in the year-round general season for rabbits?

[ThomC]

A young lady was test driving her boat when a Game Warden came along and asked to see her fishing license. She said I am not fishing. GW spotted a fishing pole in her boat and said I am giving you a ticket for no license. She said I am not fishing. He said well you have the equipment so I am giving you a ticket. The lady said well then I am calling the sheriff and accusing you of raping me. GW said, what, that is not true. The lady said well you have the equipment. GW said have a nice day.

[Peace Hunter]

Scooter,

 

My name is Gabriel Paz and I am the Law Enforcement Program Manager out of the Tucson Regional Office for the Arizona Game and Fish Department.

 

In Arizona we are blessed with multiple overlapping seasons that allows for most hunters to hunt several species of game at the same time. As we all know our rules are constantly evolving to not only provide hunters with opportunities to hunt, but also to restrict individuals from cheating. The creation of the Archery only season that prohibited carring any firearms was to try and catch those unethical archery hunters who were out there trying to create shortcuts for themselves so that they could shoot an animal with a rifle and ultimately tag it with their archery tag. Back in 2006 the department begain allowing for archery only hunters to possess the non hunting handgun specifically to address the issues and dangers we were seeing along the Arizona-Mexico border.

 

For those of you that doubt that there are hunters who would do such a thing, here is a quick story from my rookies days as a wildlife manager. I saw this first hand in the Willcox area back in 1997 or 98 when an archery hunter got bored so he traded his bow for a rifle and began hunting coyotes. After calling in a heard of deer with his coyote call he had the opportunity to harvest his buck and he decided to do it with a rifle (his bow was already put away in the truck). An ethical hunter out that day immediately called the OGT hotline and we caught the hunter as he left the area. Of course he claimed to shoot the deer with his bow but the evidence from the 30-06 bullet outweighed his arguement and he ultimatley confessed. For this type of violation he was cited for taking "taking a mule deer by unlawful method" since a rifle is not a legal method of take during an archery only seaon. Ultimately the overt action of actually taking or shooting at the specific animal during the "archery only" season is the only way an officer could issue a citation for this violation.

 

Now for the answer to your question, unfortunately this is one of those grey areas that is best answered by ThomC's response in the post before mine (I love that joke and I use it all the time when training new wildife managers). If you were hunting during an archery only season and you decide to hunt small game, you can lawfully use that pistol on your hip or archery equipment to do so. Just the fact that you decide to fire a handgun (an absolute No No for any archery hunter!) shows me that your done archery hunting for at least a while as you pursue small game.

 

I hope I answered your question!

 

Officer Gabriel Paz, Law Enforcement Program Manager, Tucson

Arizona Game and Fish Department

[ready2hunt]

Thanks for the imput Gabriel. Its always nice to have points of view from G&F.

[JakeL]

Scooter,

 

My name is Gabriel Paz and I am the Law Enforcement Program Manager out of the Tucson Regional Office for the Arizona Game and Fish Department.

 

In Arizona we are blessed with multiple overlapping seasons that allows for most hunters to hunt several species of game at the same time. As we all know our rules are constantly evolving to not only provide hunters with opportunities to hunt, but also to restrict individuals from cheating. The creation of the Archery only season that prohibited carring any firearms was to try and catch those unethical archery hunters who were out there trying to create shortcuts for themselves so that they could shoot an animal with a rifle and ultimately tag it with their archery tag. Back in 2006 the department begain allowing for archery only hunters to possess the non hunting handgun specifically to address the issues and dangers we were seeing along the Arizona-Mexico border.

 

For those of you that doubt that there are hunters who would do such a thing, here is a quick story from my rookies days as a wildlife manager. I saw this first hand in the Willcox area back in 1997 or 98 when an archery hunter got bored so he traded his bow for a rifle and began hunting coyotes. After calling in a heard of deer with his coyote call he had the opportunity to harvest his buck and he decided to do it with a rifle (his bow was already put away in the truck). An ethical hunter out that day immediately called the OGT hotline and we caught the hunter as he left the area. Of course he claimed to shoot the deer with his bow but the evidence from the 30-06 bullet outweighed his arguement and he ultimatley confessed. For this type of violation he was cited for taking "taking a mule deer by unlawful method" since a rifle is not a legal method of take during an archery only seaon. Ultimately the overt action of actually taking or shooting at the specific animal during the "archery only" season is the only way an officer could issue a citation for this violation.

 

Now for the answer to your question, unfortunately this is one of those grey areas that is best answered by ThomC's response in the post before mine (I love that joke and I use it all the time when training new wildife managers). If you were hunting during an archery only season and you decide to hunt small game, you can lawfully use that pistol on your hip or archery equipment to do so. Just the fact that you decide to fire a handgun (an absolute No No for any archery hunter!) shows me that your done archery hunting for at least a while as you pursue small game.

 

I hope I answered your question!

 

Officer Gabriel Paz, Law Enforcement Program Manager, Tucson

Arizona Game and Fish Department

 

 

Yep. No need to complicate things. Keep it simple.