Preference or Bonus

[DesertBull]

The reason BP's don't mean much anymore is because they gave them away like candy to everyone. They should have never gave a BP away for hunter ed or a loyalty point. That's just two more points that EVERYONE has and that makes them worthless.

 

If you like having no chance at drawing a tag AT ALL, unless you have a butt load of points or want to hunt crappy units, then go ahead and switch over the preference point system.

 

They need to do away with the 5 choices on the application too. 2 is enough. Alot of people get their 4th or 5th choice October deer hunt, which they don't even really want,while others who might really like that hunt are shut out.

 

Waiting periods are ok, but the effect on draw odds is very minimal. Example: Unit 9 bow elk hunt has 75 tags. That means you are only keeping 225 people out of the draw for that hunt after 3 years. There were probably 3,000 applicants for that hunt. 225 don't mean jack squat.

 

Reserving 80% of the tags for the highest point holders sounds ok, until you get your tag and your hunt is over and you realize you almost no chance of hunting it again for 8-10 years.

 

The thing that will help you draw a tag the fastest would be to limit the amount of species a hunter can apply for. Choose one between sheep and antelope, elk and deer. For some reason, people balk at that idea because they say they like to apply for all the hunts. Well, I don't like applying for hunts, I like drawing a tag. If I get one decent to good tag per year I am happy.

[jim]

The bonus points still mean exactly what they were prior to giving out the loyalty point. If everyone got 1 then the whole system just moved 1 point. However I know several people who had missed a year for 1 reason or other and did not get the point. That put some people ahead of others if they were tied before. It seems around here as guys get closer to max they all start putting in for the early rifle bull hunts so they take the max pool higher than available tags. AZ has what alot of people call fringe units. I think if a guy puts in the time, every unit in this state has the ability to put out huge bulls. I kinda like when everyone puts in for units 1,27,8,9 and 10 it leaves tags almost every year for the ones that hunt the sucky units. The move to archery bull in nov would have made for some excellant hunting if people wanted to actually hunt, but most people don't know how to hunt the bulls after they stop responding to calls or running around chasing cows. The big bulls do not leave the units, they just become less hunter friendly. And if you don't think I'm right about people not knowing how to hunt the bulls if their not talking look at hunter success during years when the elk are not that vocal during the rut. I am not trying to stir the pot either this is just my most humble opionon on how the nov hunt would have increased hunter opputunity.

[mzlloader]

Well all I am going to say, is I dont think it matters how many or how many you dont have.

 

This year I put in for Unit 7 first choice 14 B P for antelope, I did not draw, but I do know two Guys who put in for unit 7 with 0, zero, nada B P and drew there first goat tag, I am going to NM or Wy next year to get my goat. good luck to all who drew,

 

 

 

R L

[singleshot]

I know a ten year old who drew a late bull tag in a great unit. No bonus points, not even hunters safety because of a departmental screw up. Good luck Mace.!!

[Mason]

I know a ten year old who drew a late bull tag in a great unit. No bonus points, not even hunters safety because of a departmental screw up. Good luck Mace.!!

Thanks Singleshot. To clarify, yes I have a daughter that drew a unit 1 Bull tag this year without any points. This is my point exactly, is it right that she got that hunt when people with max points got skunked? The guy who talked about the fringe units has a point, but those would be the units that would not require very many points to draw on a preference system. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy that she drew the hunt, it is just I see the cracks in the system.

[biggelkhunter]

How many Bonus Points is max is there a max JS

[.270]

bonus points and preference points are sorta like a pyramid scheme. sorta. after a few years there are so many people with so many points, that it really doesn't matter anymore. hunts that i used to get drawn for in colorado every year, now take 10-15 preference points. be pretty hard for me to start applying for a hunt now that will take a minimum of 15 years to get drawn for and by the time i got drawn, it'd be 20. when bonus points were started, everyone was real open about the fact that it wouldn't be too long until too many people had too many points for it to work well. i don't know what the answer is. in fact i don't think there is an answer. doesn't matter what kinda system you use, eventually it's going to reach a saturation point. that's what we have now. bonus points do increase your odds over someone with no points, but it doesn't do you much good when bunches of folks also have a lotta points. and every year, multiple folks with no points are going to get drawn over folks with lots of points. Lark.

[Switchback]

This is a letter my mom wrote and sent off this morning. I have had the privelege of drawing 2 bull tags in my 18 yrs of putting in. I hope in the future i don't have the bad luck my grandpa has had in drawing permits. Although I have been skunked two years in a row for deer and elk. Got a pig tag this year!

 

 

Dear Sirs:

 

After finding out our unsuccessful draws for the 2006 hunting season, I felt compelled to write you this letter. My father is 78 years old, has failing eyesight, and is now in remission from cancer. Obviously he will not have many more years to hunt, and yet hunting is his passion. He has been an Arizona resident for all of his life, which qualified him for a Pioneer License under ARS17-336. He is a steward of the land, who belongs to many outdoor clubs. He comes home from every outdoor trip with a truckload of other people?s trash. This father, grandfather, and great-grandfather has taught his entire family about the great outdoors. He has a kinship with nature that few people will ever achieve. Yet year after year after year he is denied the opportunity to hunt in the land that he loves.

The permit draw system as it currently exists is a travesty. The hunting draw should have a separate supplemental draw to address its Senior/Pioneers. Your department currently has a Youth Draw, but as a teacher I know that most grandparents and great-grandparents are the ones taking our youth out into the wilderness and showing them the beauty of the land. But over and over again these seniors and therefore their grandchildren are being denied this hunting opportunity. With my proposed Senior/Pioneer draw category the hunting heritage of our state can be enhanced. This is the goal of every outdoor club and organization in our country.

Not only was my dad rejected for an elk tag, he was denied a deer and a turkey tag, too. He has drawn an elk tag only 5 times in about 60 years of applications, and has been denied turkey and deer permits most of the time the last 10 years. Not only was my dad denied tags, but so were all the other members of my family. We have had 4 straight years without a family drawn elk permit (10 family members who put in separately), so Dad is even denied the opportunity to go on a hunt with other family members. This is unacceptable.

Your population of hunters in the +70 age bracket is a very small population. Most of these hunters would not put a significant dent in the game populations due to their inability to hike, physical impairments, or stamina. What could having a separate Senior/Pioneer draw hurt? These Seniors such as my dad have supported your organization for over 60 years and deserve a chance to hunt annually until they are no longer able. They also deserve the opportunity to mentor their grandchildren for the future of all hunting (which is aligned with AGF desires). Having a Youth hunt and not having a Senior Hunt is age discrimination (age is a protected class) which is against the United States Constitution. Something must be done.

[jim]

I believe the bonus points started in 90 so it should be 16 yrs counting this draw and the other 2 points. It should equal 18 as max for next years draw. ( if I'm right about when they started)

[DEERSLAM]

That's a great letter switchback, thanks for sharing. Let us know what kind of a response she gets from G&F.

[Switchback]

That's a great letter switchback, thanks for sharing. Let us know what kind of a response she gets from G&F.

will keep you posted

[dds]

Donnie,

 

I'm with you on that. Three year hiatus after drawing a tag. It assures that no one draws back to back tags, and it would remove several applicants from the draw pool increasing the odds for others.

[coues krazy]

I think it should be left alone exept for the online apps. Go back to paper, and no preference points! I dont want to wait three years for just a chance to get drawn for elk again. I am guessing all these ideas came from people who didnt draw this year. Would you feel the same had you drawn a tag? No sir, I dont like it.

[DesertBull]

The whole thing is way too complicated as is. Just throw everyones name in the hat and pull out the lucky winners.

[hunt4horns]

If I may switchback I might add a little to your opinion and I'm sure it will piss some people off and maybe you might have to help me fight them off one at as time.

 

I know a guy and you know him too. He has drawn a archery bull tag twice in the last 4 years to include this year but hasn't worked a day in the last seven. He fails to work because he says he can make more money on the system than he would working and his foot hurts him really bad. However I hunt and fish with him (or did) and he puts more work into hunting than most men do working. He is currently seperated and his wife says she can't hardly get him to help support his children. I feel like people on unemployement and abusing the welfare system and people who owe child support shouldn't have the priveledge of hunting. You and I are paying for people like him to hunt. I could go on and on but would probably get death threats.