AZGFD doesn't care about the youth.

[SunDevil]

they were drawn in the 20% bonus pool pass.

[Redman]

Cody,

 

Its very disappointing to not get drawn.

 

Part of life is accepting your own mistakes and not making accusations like your post does. In both situations no mistake was made by the Game and Fish. To say the AZGFD does't care about the youth is unfair, they do, however some situations are black and white. The Game and Fish has hundreds of thousands of people apply for hunts, they cannot make exceptions to the rules for a single person.... I know it sucks, but hang in there.

 

Look at the bright side, you and your father will be chasing cow elk together and spending great time with each other, sure its not a bull hunt.....but life is what you make it.

[Elkaddict]

Years ago I got drawn for an archery cow hunt...What!! I have never put in for cow!! Seems I put the wrong number down! Lesson learned. Read the regs.

[bwakeling]

There have been a lot of excellent responses to your post already, and I'm coming to the party a little bit late. I did want you to know that the Department does care about youth and the important role they will play in the future management of wildlife.

 

The way the Department has to manage our processes are generally spelled out in statute, rule, order, or policy. And we have to interpret them consistently to the best of our ability. Sometimes it doesn't seem right, but it is interpreted fairly. What I mean by that is it is interpreted consistently so that everyone is treated the same. Maybe that doesn't always feel good, but we have to do it that way. When we can, we generally try to use our discretion to the individual's favor.

 

Unfortunately for you, there is a statute and rule that says we cannot return money or bonus points if it is not our error. We are investigating potential changes to rule that might be more flexible, but we are not there yet.

 

Let me give you another example. The rule that specifically addresses "juniors-only" hunts is R12-4-318. By statute, rules must be reviewed at least once every 5 years. We had a series of modifications to that rule scheduled for revision, and in fact had presented proposed rulemaking to the Commission in December 2008. When Governor Brewer took office in January 2009, she placed a moratorium on rulemaking that was subsequently extended several times by the legislature. The rulemaking package expired, and only last year due to additional legislation introduced by Senator Antenori regarding hunting in counties and municipalities (SB 1334), we were able to address some of the proposed changes in R12-4-318. That rule was amended and effective January 1, 2013, juniors-only hunts will now be available to any youth up to their 18th birthday. So long as you do not turn 18 before the hunt begins, you will be eligible.

 

By the way, for most government agencies, there is still a moratorium in place for rulemaking. It has been there since January 2009. Arizona Game and Fish is regaining some rulemaking ability, but it is slow and we are trying to remain consistent with the governor and legislature's intents.

 

This example is to demonstrate how complex the system is and how difficult changes can be even if they seem simple or obvious. We are not trying to be hardnosed or obstinate - we simply have to live with what the rules are.

 

And there are many people that have expressed frustration with the 20% bonus pass (which is in Article 1 rules) and leftover tags. The rule was adopted originally because of public input. The implications and effect on those applicants when there were leftover tags was never fully considered, but the system works exactly as designed. Truth to tell, there are probably a number of times when people draw their second choice during the bonus pass when they would probably have received their first choice had they not received a tag in the bonus pass, but this is generally not detected because all the tags are issued through the draw.

 

I hope you get to enjoy some time in the field hunting with your family this year. I know systems are rarely flawless. But also recognize that the people that have to implement the process are rarely the source of the perceived problem. We will continue to improve processes. Processes are changed through the public forum to protect the public and ensure transparency in our decision making. I hope this explanation helps you to understand this complexity to some degree.

 

Good luck.

 

Brian Wakeling

Game Branch Chief

[tjhunt2]

Thank you Brian for your explanation. It's was nice of you to post on behave of azgfd.

 

TJ

[1uglydude]

You can only apply for jr hunts up til the year you turn 17, it doesn't mean if you are 17 during the hunt then you can apply.

 

Sorry to hear that, it would have gone the same way for us adults. Did you apply for the cow tags? Did you have proof of the application you submitted? If there's no proof or if you did apply for the cow hunt, that's just part of the game, sorry nothing has gone your way this year

 

Just FYI, according to AZGFD, this rule is changing. It will now be pegged to the actual 18th birthday. As long as you are 17 on the day the hunt begins, you're okay to apply for junior hunts.

 

Brian can chime in on this, but the language should be changed the next time they print regulations. I spoke to them on the phone last week because I was concerned about how the current rule might cut off a year of eligibility for kids with late birthdays. I wasn't even aware of this thread at the time...but it looks like they were.

[1uglydude]

And there are many people that have expressed frustration with the 20% bonus pass (which is in Article 1 rules) and leftover tags. The rule was adopted originally because of public input. The implications and effect on those applicants when there were leftover tags was never fully considered, but the system works exactly as designed.

 

The 20% pass system is awesome. You've just got to be aware of it and where your points will put you. I hope it doesn't change.

[1uglydude]

You can only apply for jr hunts up til the year you turn 17, it doesn't mean if you are 17 during the hunt then you can apply.

 

Sorry to hear that, it would have gone the same way for us adults. Did you apply for the cow tags? Did you have proof of the application you submitted? If there's no proof or if you did apply for the cow hunt, that's just part of the game, sorry nothing has gone your way this year

 

Just FYI, according to AZGFD, this rule is changing. It will now be pegged to the actual 18th birthday. As long as you are 17 on the day the hunt begins, you're okay to apply for junior hunts.

 

Brian can chime in on this, but the language should be changed the next time they print regulations. I spoke to them on the phone last week because I was concerned about how the current rule might cut off a year of eligibility for kids with late birthdays. I wasn't even aware of this thread at the time...but it looks like they were.

 

And here you go... http://azgfd.net/artman/publish/NewsMedia/Clarification-on-age-eligibility-for-Juniors-Only-designated-hunts.shtml

[TLH]

I know this young man is disappointed but i also know that the Game and Fish go well out of their way for the youth hunter. It hurts to see someone write this even if they are young as it is not true by any means. The Game and Fish will be at our camp again in Unit 23 this year teaching kids how to glass, clean and hunt animals. They will spend their entire weekend hanging out and helping kids get on deer through out the weekend. They will have their friends from other units come help and they will praise and make that young hunter feel very special no matter if that hunter kills a deer or not.

 

This type of thing has happened to may of us and we have to swallow our pride and admit we screwed up--not the game and fish. Rules are rules and we live by them daily--that is why we are the society that we are; it makes no difference if you are 10 or 100 we all have to live by the rules!

 

Unit 22 Mule Deer can be a great hunt if you scout and scouting is more fun than the hunt at times...be happy for what you have buddy because many of us do not have that!

[AverageJoe]

Do a google search on azgfd youth and this post is fifth on the search results. Now someone doing a random search or inquiring on youth hunts in az will see this and possibly not go any further into hunting with their kid here in az. This thread Should be removed all together. Azgfd does a great job with youth hunts.