Thoughts on Baiting

[ForkHorn]

Are you hinting at the other proposed rule that is being snuck in that outlaws anything to be placed on or near water sources? (Trail cams).

 

 

 

[reganranch]

All these proposed rules are taking Hunting away one little pull and cut at a time. Everyone get out there Friday and take a piece of the pie while it's on the way out the door.

[audsley]

So Tonto Rim believes increased archery success is attributable to baiting, while Desert Bull, Kimberx2 and others believe it's better archery equipment, trail cameras and ground blinds. Is there anything else that might give us a clue? How about archery antelope?

 

I don't believe antelope are subject to baiting (although I've seen them use salt licks), but better archery equipment, ground blinds and decoys could be factors. I don't know about trail cameras for antelope. But if increased archery success for deer is the result of baiting, shouldn't we look at another species hunted by archers without benefit baiting to see if those hunts show a different trend from that for deer?

 

Again using the hunt statistics published by AGFD, we see that success rates from 1974 to 1980 ranged from 0 to 9.8%. From 1981 to 1990, success ranged from a low of 6.4 in 1981 to 11.6 in 1990. Notice that the lowest was at the beginning of the decade and the highest was in the last year of the decade. From 1991 through 2000, success averaged 16.3%. From 2001 to 2006, success improved to 19.1%. Then our last 5 years of 2007-12 saw overall success zoom to 30.5%. So for archery antelope, success has been steadily increasing through the years.

 

Maybe I'm naive or out of touch, but I didn't think there was much baiting, if any, going on for antelope. If that's true, and if success for the unbaited species is improving at least as rapidly if not more so than the baited species, what should we conclude?

 

For my part, I'll conclude that it is unlikely that baiting is the principal reason for improved deer success for archers. Just sayin'...

[DesertBull]

If the baiting ban is passed then I would hope that a ban on shooting over 400 yards is also in the works. That should lower success rates and allow more hunters in field also.

[Snapshot]

If the baiting ban in passed then I would hope that a ban on shooting over 400 yards is also in the works. That should lower success rates and allow more hunters in field also.

 

Just wait. Pretty soon someone is going to invent laser guided "smart bullets". Slap them into a gun mounted on a claw/tripod. Heck, hunters won't even have to leave the road.

[audsley]

Good idea, Desert Bull, but I've got a better one. Why don't general season hunters just hunt with handguns? Then success rates will be really low and everybody can go hunting!

[AZLance]

Now put yourself in the shoes of the Department’s veterinarian, big game chief or even director. Your job, your mission is first and foremost to look out for the well-being of wildlife populations and not necessarily worry about whether the AZLance’s of the world are happy campers.

 

So, alI I had to do was post a few links with FACTS and SOURCES, and now I am the problem? And I am not a happy Camper? This is typical G&F, when someone presents the facts, that person is all of a sudden the problem... How dare I question the allmighty and all knowing G&F...

[DesertBull]

Liberals don't like handguns. I think we should just hunt with cameras.

[DesertBull]

Now put yourself in the shoes of the Department’s veterinarian, big game chief or even director. Your job, your mission is first and foremost to look out for the well-being of wildlife populations and not necessarily worry about whether the AZLance’s of the world are happy campers.

 

So, alI I had to do was post a few links with FACTS and SOURCES, and now I am the problem? And I am not a happy Camper? This is typical G&F, when someone presents the facts, that person is all of a sudden the problem... How dare I question the allmighty and all knowing G&F...

 

Like almost all Gov't agency's, they eventually evolve into a group that forgets who they work for and who gives them the power they have.

[luvdemcoues]

Some great points and arguments made here. In an effort to look at this with an open mind (assuming there is no hidden agenda), I think the point Tonto Rim is trying to make, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that while baiting may not be the only or even largest cause of the increased success rates for archery, it is a factor.

As far as factors go, baiting is more easily controlled than the others such as the increased technological aspect of archery hunting. As such, it would be logical for G&F to seek to control that factor as a means to try to bring the success rates for archery back down, even if just a little. That would allow them to issue more rifle tags which would increase their revenues all while still allowing the generous opportunities for archery hunters.

Again, all that was said under the assumption that this would be the only limit or ban, and that there are no hidden agendas.

I have hunted over bait in the past (albeit unsuccessfully) and have nothing against it. But if banning it was the only limitation placed by G&F and there were no hidden agendas, and G&F guaranteed us the return of the closed archery units, then maybe I could entertain a thought or two about supporting the ban.

Just some thoughts... and good luck to everyone this weekend.

[bowsniper]

But if banning it was the only limitation placed by G&F and there were no hidden agendas, and G&F guaranteed us the return of the closed archery units, then maybe I could entertain a thought or two about supporting the ban.

 

No hidden agendas and a guarantee from AZG&F??!! What are you smoking, corn??!!

[luvdemcoues]

 

I know right?! But hey, I set the parameters for my opinion. I know they are unrealistic, but those are them.

[Snapshot]

The G&F has secret agendas? Say it isn''t so.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Maybe the learning curve for hunters has improved overall.

 

Technology, rubbing shoulders with good hunters turned me into a better hunter. Instead of just walking a ridge to bust out a buck, I now spot and stalk, or glass.

 

Compare the bow I got for Christmas 30 years ago to the bow I gave my son last Christmas with a whisker biscuit and all............my bow is like an ancient dinosaur.

 

I hunt an area right now that I would have never hunted if I hadn't of put out trail cams. I get pictures of so many great bucks that I just can't stand the thought of not getting one of them.

 

After 3 years of trying to get that big sucker the score is still deer 3..............me 0.

 

Trail camera didn't make me a better hunter it just got me thinkin I could maybe catch up with that big one in that area so I keep going back to see if I can win just once...................

[Tonto Rim]

luvdemcoues, thank you for grasping exactly what I was trying to convey. I was beginning to think my words were written in vain. AZLance, no personal offense was intended. I merely picked your handle because it was easily remembered and your post on mixing salt with corn made me laugh. Audsley, your scientific approach is to be lauded and has merit. Care to look at the evolution of archery success rates for elk and mule deer as well? My point is still that if archery deer hunters get too successful, we may very well end up getting further restricted or even permitted just like archery antelope and elk hunters. Certainly our improving success rates may be attributable to a variety of technological and learned hunting technique improvements. Which would be easier to give up (if maintaining current liberal opportunity is important to you), modern bows/trail cameras/ground blinds or flinging corn?

 

Lastly my words are just that - MY WORDS. I am retired. I have no contact with any department personnel involved with this issue and do not seek to defend or to defame the department's position. I had simply hoped my perspective might be thought provoking to a few of you.