Thoughts on Baiting

[Tonto Rim]

In response to the now quite lengthy thread regarding the apparent AZGFD recommendation to prohibit baiting, I have decided to come out of my cave and offer comment. As a disclaimer, I am a retired AZGFD wildlife manager so some of you may automatically disregard anything I write as propaganda. So be it. For those of you with open minds, read on.

 

Firstly let me concede that baiting, even if correctly done, is not an absolute guarantee of a successful hunt. But I hope you will also agree that baiting is a darn sight more effective than just slinking through the piney woods in hopes of stalking up within bow range of a deer. In fact, I think we can all agree that baiting is arguably one of the most effective tactics to take a whitetail buck. If it wasn’t, I don’t think so many of you would be riled up at the thought of losing baiting as a lawful hunting method.

 

Now for those who seem believe the bait ban consideration is all part of a greater conspiracy to legislate hunters out of the means to be successful, I believe you are wrong. Trail cameras, sitting water, tree stands, ground blinds and the like are not the next logical next step beyond this recommendation. This is a stand-alone issue that is about two things; disease transmission and archery hunter success (especially as it applies to Coues whitetail deer). That’s it. Yes there are many people that would gladly take away your and my privilege to hunt. But those kinds of people don’t write rules for AZGFD. Trust me on this. The Department is far from perfect, but the last thing they want to do is regulate you into another leisure time pursuit. If you all quit buying licenses and tags, they are out of funding and out of jobs.

 

Many serious wildlife diseases including Chronic Wasting Disease, Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease, Blue Tongue and the like are transmissible through contact with infected body fluids, including saliva. Therefore, any human activity that congregates animals and increases the likelihood that they will swap spit is generally a bad idea. I know the nay-Sayers among you have claimed that if disease transmission is really behind this, then why isn’t salt also being considered for prohibition under the current recommendation? Quite simply salt and salt derivatives are naturally antibiotic and antiviral. The nasty bugs that cause these diseases simply can’t persist on a salt block or in a salt lick. Therefore salt does not present a serious threat of disease transmission. Not so for edible grain baits. Germs transferred through saliva will persist for quite some time on bait and in the soil where the bait was placed, providing a ready source of transmission to future animals visiting the site. I agree with most of you that CWD, if it ever enters this state, will not be the result of a bait site. But the widespread use of edible baits could significantly increase the spread of the disease if it ever got here. Are you willing to risk the health of our deer and elk herds for the sake of increasing your ability to be successful?

 

The other real issue with baiting is its’ effect on archery hunter success. Everyone who reads this post that has actually used bait knows full well that the primary baiting target is Coues whitetail deer. While baiting also works for turkey, javelina and other species, the vast majority of hard-core baiters are after whitetail bucks. And the vast majority of those are archery hunters. So what’s the problem? Loss of seasons and/or over-the-counter tags is what. Quite simply, we archery deer hunters have enjoyed over-the-counter tags and multiple open seasons in units south of the Colorado River for one simple reason - we haven’t killed enough deer to matter. Even with compound bows, range finders, ground blinds, and hunting on water we haven’t killed enough deer to matter. With the widespread use of bait, however, we do kill enough whitetail bucks to matter. That’s where the rubber meets the road for this issue. When we get too successful at killing deer with archery tackle, we either have to give up opportunity or we have to give up the methods that make us so successful. That’s the deal with using a “primitive” weapon. You get unparalleled opportunity as long as you aren’t too successful. You get too successful, you lose the opportunity.

 

Taking a quick look at some statewide numbers, the number of archery deer hunters has remained relatively stable at about 17,000 from 1990 to the present. Over that same time period, the whitetail buck archery harvest has increased five-fold. What do you think makes today’s archer so much more successful than those of just 20 years ago at killing whitetail bucks? In comparison, the mule deer archery harvest over the same time period has remained essentially unchanged or even dropped a bit.

 

I happen to be very familiar with Units 22 and 23 and have hunted whitetails on and off there for over 35 years. Back in the day, nobody I knew of used bait. Over the last decade bait sites started showing up more and more. Today, bait sites are everywhere. As I still hunt and explore new areas to hunt, I feel like I am trespassing through private hunting “claims” where each baiter defends his or her territory. One hunter I ran into last January told me he had been baiting a particular location for seven or eight years, implying I should respect his claim to those national forest lands and stay out. This sentiment is quite understandable given the effort in dollars and hours that were expended backpacking in quantities of corn, numerous times, to keep the site active in preparation for the hunt. The comments I have read in this forum regarding baiting that allude to a “handful” of bait here and there are disingenuous. We all know that to be effective, bait must be laid in quantity and must be regularly refreshed. Just ask the feed store in Payson how much grain they sell to hunters. I guarantee you the amount is measured in tons, and not in handfuls.

 

Let’s take a look at some recent harvest numbers for Units 22 and 23. Archery hunter success has increased in both units from 2007 to 2011, 3% to 7% in Unit 22 and 4% to 7% in Unit 23. Of special note, the annual whitetail buck harvest in Unit 23 has more than doubled from the mid-thirties to over 70 during the same time period. Not only are hunters getting more successful in this unit, but more hunters are showing up. Those numerical increases may seem insignificant on face value, but if one realizes that in a stable population, each additional 10 bucks harvested by archers equals about 50 less rifle hunters that can take to the field the next year, this increased harvest is quite significant to wildlife managers planning their hunt recommendations. In order to properly manage the whitetail buck harvest, these managers are forced to either cut rifle tags, or reduce the opportunity or effectiveness of archery hunters. Which option do you think will be chosen?

 

So for those of you who are in favor of baiting and are preparing to fight to keep that privilege, I ask you one simple question. Are you willing to give up your over-the-counter archery tag and your liberal season dates to keep baiting? Because I believe that will be the end result in some units if baiting is allowed to remain. Baiting, while not a sure-fire technique, is still effective enough to raise archery hunter success rates to levels where archery hunter numbers need to be controlled. I would much rather buy my tag over-the-counter, have the ability to hunt August-September, December and January, and forfeit the use of bait. In my book, that’s a dang good trade. For those of you who think you can have your apple (or cob) and eat it too, you have another thing coming. Units 22 and 23 have already lost their December archery seasons in response to increased whitetail harvests. How much opportunity are you willing to sacrifice in order to maintain your use of bait? How big a fan of baiting would you be if you had to put in the draw for an archery deer tag and were limited to a single 14 day season?

 

Think about it before you decide on this issue. If you decide you still want to defend the use bait, remember what you are likely giving up. Will it be worth it?

[AZLance]

So, if I coat my corn feed with salt, I eliminate the CWD issue...

[hunter4life]

Very good post!

[ThomC]

Thank you TR. It is wonderful when the actual facts are posted. I always thought that the people so opposed to baiting had a hidden agenda, ie. their bait pile.

[Pine Donkey]

Thanks for your well written post. Although I don't agree with all your points, I appreciate the professional and respectful tone you use in presenting the information.

 

Other parts of your post, such as the idea that as we become more efficient in killing animals threfore opportunity will be limited, I do agree with. However, I don't see limiting opportunity as the worst of all options. Bull elk hunting opportunities are very limited compared to coues, but they are still great hunts. I believe this is in part because the chance of killing a great bull is very good.

 

Welcome to this forum, I hope you will continue to share your knowledge and experience.

[DesertBull]

Couple of questions.

 

Can someone tell me how many cases of CWD in whitetail deer have been documented in Texas. A state that has more corn flingers per square mile than other?

 

Tonto, can CWD live in water?

[prowlerMan]

Couple of questions.

 

Can someone tell me how many cases of CWD in whitetail deer have been documented in Texas. A state that has more corn flingers per square mile than other?

 

Tonto, can CWD live in water?

 

I was wondering the same thing about it being transmittable through water?

[AZLance]

Ok, I did a bit of keyboard investigation, and this is what I found on CWD being spread thru water sources. Basically many sources say there is strong evidence that suggests that CWD can be transmitted thru water sources. So this being said, shouldn't the department put a immediate halt to all wildlife water catchments, and begin draining all of the existing ones. If the department is so concerned with CWD, this is a major issue. Water is a much larger draw or attractant than any corn or grain feeder...

 

The Center For Disease Control says:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/cwd/

Transmission

"CWD can be highly transmissible within deer and elk populations. The mode of transmission is not fully understood, but evidence supports the possibility that the disease is spread through direct animal-to-animal contact or as a result of indirect exposure to prions in the environment (e.g., in contaminated feed and water sources). Several epidemiologic studies provide evidence that, to date, CWD has not been transmitted to humans"

 

The Maine Fish and Wildlife department says:

http://www.maine.gov/ifw/wildlife/disease/cwd.htm#howdodeerandelkgetcwd

"Therefore, CWD is likely transmitted by direct contact with infected individuals, or by contact with contaminated soil, leaves, bedding, feed, or water. "

 

The California department of Fish and Game says:

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/WIL/disease/cwd/index.html

" Evidence suggests infected deer and elk transmit the disease agent laterally through animal-to-animal contact and/or contamination of feed or water sources with saliva, urine, and/or feces. CWD seems more likely to occur in areas where deer or elk are crowded or where they congregate at man-made feed and water stations."

[Flatlander]

Couple of questions.

 

Can someone tell me how many cases of CWD in whitetail deer have been documented in Texas. A state that has more corn flingers per square mile than other?

 

Tonto, can CWD live in water?

 

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/cwd/

 

I was wondering the same thing about it being transmittable through water?

From this website it looks like a possibility. Same website also shows very few confirmed cases in Texas, and only in the far Western portion.

 

But beyond all this I think Tonto has a valid point, the reason we get liberal archery seasons is because the success rates are much lower, obviously. So it stands to reason that if success rates increase, more control will need to be implemented. I also understand that some folks would rather have one quality hunt with trophy potential than multiple opportunities. I for one feel that archery deer season makes the wait for other quality tags bearable. I can wait 5-7 years for an elk tag because I know every fall I will be out for most of the year chasing WT with my bow, not having that opportunity might drive me over the edge.

 

Tonto, thanks for the well worded and very informed post, this was one of the best posts I have read on this site. Although I am sure we will not ever be able to all agree on this topic, I think we all can appreciate the type of information you have provided.

[AZLance]

Couple of questions.

 

Can someone tell me how many cases of CWD in whitetail deer have been documented in Texas. A state that has more corn flingers per square mile than other?

 

Tonto, can CWD live in water?

 

The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department says only 2 confirmed cases in Texas, both were Mule deer. And these came from a region in Texas where baiting is not prevelant...

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20120710a

[Big Tub]

Uncle Ted had much to say about this -- mostly that it is nonsense.

 

My own opinion is the less laws, the better. Since we don't have CWD here, it boggles my mind that they are using this to sell outlawing baiting -- HIDDEN AGENDA.

[DesertBull]

I don't mind a debate on baiting but let's call it like it is. It's about reducing the number of deer killed, not about disease.

 

I would say that the improvement in equipment, better educated hunters, more people taking up bow hunting because it is getting harder to get late season rifle tags and more people targeting whitetail has as much to do with the increase in bow hunter success on coues as baiting.

 

20 years ago you could get drawn for December whitetail almost every year, even in units like 27, 32 and 33. Now the odds are better of drawing a kaibab tag. A lot of people took up bow hunting after the tags became hard to draw, so they could hunt in December

 

When I started bow hunting, a 40 yard shot was considered on the far edge of effectiveness for 99% of all bow hunters. Fat aluminum arrows, steel cabled bows, most sights had only 3 pins. Now 70-80 yards is not considered all that far for those that dedicate themselves to practice. Most of us can routinely get within 70 yards of a deer. Consistently getting under 40 is a whole different game.

 

Cheap and effective pop up blinds, bows that shoot hunting arrows and broad heads at 280+ fps, 7 pin sights, cheap laser range finders, etc all bring up the success rates.

 

We won't even get into the rifle hunters that now take deer at 1,000+ yards regularly due to computers and 1600 yard range finders.

 

I believe these are the reasons are why we are being "sold" on the disease aspect. There is no way to regulate technology, so we have to find other ways to limit success without limiting tags.

 

Just my opinion. If you don't it like, I have others.

[DesertBull]

Why not take unit 22, as a test case, and start a short, draw only season where baiting is legal (say 25 tags) and keep the unlimited OTC archery hunts where no baiting is allowed. You could try that for 2-3 years and then analyze the results.

[huntjunkie]

Couple of questions.

 

Can someone tell me how many cases of CWD in whitetail deer have been documented in Texas. A state that has more corn flingers per square mile than other?

 

Tonto, can CWD live in water?

 

I was wondering the same thing about it being transmittable through water?

WHAT ABOUT SCRAPES?

[Snapshot]

I don't use bait, and it is a moot point with me. But I understand if overharvest is the reasoning behind a bait ban. However, if G&F is so concerned about lowering harvest numbers, why did they add extra rifle hunts and tags in various units? For example: I have seen October whitetail tags in unit 27 go from 250 available tags, up to 600 this last year, a 240% increase in about 5 years. I understand that each unit is managed by varying data, but why should archery hunters be penalized for the sake of opportunity vs. success rate?

 

It's like the lottery agencies wanting to sell tickets, but they don't want anybody to win.