Antmo23 Report post Posted August 13, 2012 I went camping this past weekend up by Knoll Lake and I got a warning for camping off a road (the 295e) that was closed to camping. The FS LEO, Mr. Papa, was very nice and professional as he told me, that although there were no signs stating that road was closed to camping, and that I was within 30 feet from the road, I was camping illegally. How the !&@$ and when the !%#& did this law pass? They have taken away miles and MILES of roads in the coconino NF and haven't posted any signs stating what roads are open and which are closed. It's almost like camping roulette! And they arent going to stop till it comes to a national forest near you. They took away my favorite hunting areas in 6A, I'd have to walk in over a mile just to get to where I usually park my truck,THEN I'd have to walk to my glassing spot. That country is not flat. Heaven forbid I spot a buck over 300 yards away, I'd be spending the night on the hill side . And my camp is now off limits... Be careful out there scouting and hunting, they are going to make a fortune on tickets for this, another example of greed over what's right.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GOTMTNS Report post Posted August 13, 2012 I was with Ant and to add to this...Last weekend he warned another person who was also with us this weekend for being camped off another road that wasn't posted closed and had told him that the area our camp was in this weekend was OPEN. He didn't even know what hunting unit he was in and changed some of the information he told us multiple times during our conversation with him, and didn't go into every camp and give them warnings. It did feel a bit like we were singled out, and I believe some of it had to do with the fact that all our vehicles made it obvious we were hunters. I only say this because he brought up the hunting aspect before we did. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chico Report post Posted August 13, 2012 That is what everyone that has a hunt in 5 B south is going to have deal with. It's a sad day for all individuals that are going out with tags for hunts be it deer, elk, etc. Kind of frustating that roads are closed and not posted. Verbage on this issue from my understanding is if you are out there you need to know what is open and closed. I myself requested a Motor Vehicle Use Map from Coconino Forest Supervisor office . Comparing map to regular forest service map of Coconino- not good. Total crap! Going to use a mountain bike I guess to access places I used to be able to get in, park and hunt. Really blows! Best of luck to all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reganranch Report post Posted August 13, 2012 It does suck I don't have a tag for this particular unit, but many public lands in Az belong to the USFS, what says they wont go after tonto,coronado next? Thats BS man that they singled you guys out and left the other people alone. I would write a letter to the head of the department with the LEO's name date location and incident report. Whats wrong with this nation we give the hand of God to USFS agents and tie Border Patrols hands behind their backs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azslim Report post Posted August 13, 2012 good year to get skunked for an elk tag, hope folks have things straightened out before I draw again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4Falls Report post Posted August 13, 2012 Theres been much discussion on this topic already. Kaibab and Prescott NF's have had there travel restriction plans out for sometime. I believe Coconino just rolled theirs out this spring. Kiabab has been posting roads and even put up large signs saying that there is a travel mngmet plan in place and to refer to the map. I believe Prescott has done the same however most of the places i travel in the Prescott NF have remained open. This whole thing frustrates the he77 out of me, and it really only hurts those of us who abide the plan anyway. From my first hand accounts it has done very little to stop the road use in Kaibab NF around Williams. Even roads with obvious road closed signs on them are still being well traveled. I'm betting WalMart is going to sell a heck of alot of moountain bikes this fall! haaaaaa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antmo23 Report post Posted August 13, 2012 The way he was talking, it sounds like similar laws are headed for all the National Forests, not just the elk units. Everyone should be aware and fight these laws BEFORE they go into effect. I'm not a road hunter at all, but I dang sure like to drive close as I can to my hunting area before I start my walk. And this is going to jam hunters together on specific roads and take the fun out of the hunt camp. And with a lot of camps in a small area, if some anti wanted to destroy some hunting camps, this law makes it way too easy for them... This is really sad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bonecollector Report post Posted August 13, 2012 I believe they are working on Tonto now. I cant remember where I saw it at. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigorange Report post Posted August 13, 2012 There was a good discussion about this at the AZ Elk Society elk clinic. All of the forests are required to have a travel management plan in place and as stated above are in different stages of publishing them. Coconino was reported to have the best motor vehicle map (dated 4/15/2012) with dispersed camping (allowed within 300 feet) marked by dots along the road on the map...either one or both sides of road. Clear as mud. Looking at the map right now, 295E looks to be open to dispersed camping in most sections, but some sections not marked with dots. Based on the explanation given at the clinic, the areas with no dots were still open to camping but 30 foot limit instead of 300 foot. (Note that I'm no expert...this is my understanding) It was recommended to check out the FS website for updated travel management plan for whichever forest you're using. Looking right now for Apache-Sitgreaves because I don't want to be in the same situation on my scouting trip this weekend in 27... http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/map/state_list.shtml#Arizona Good luck! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigorange Report post Posted August 13, 2012 I believe they are working on Tonto now. I cant remember where I saw it at. Tonto travel management plan info is here... http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/tonto/home/?cid=fsbdev3_018761 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
couesdiehard Report post Posted August 13, 2012 And so the fun begins... they have been several discussions on this topic right after the elk/antelope draws came out. Search forums for the name of the forest or enter "travel plan". It sucks but the rules have already been changed in most of the forests and we got screwed. Take FS travel plan maps (loaded from individual FS websites) and gps with you and be sure you know where you are at even if FS personnel don't. Good luck everyone. Lee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZHUNTER05 Report post Posted August 13, 2012 Ya i have a 5bn elk tag this year and scouting has been really frustrating! I picked up a FS map they are handing out showing you the roads that are open and it sucks it is way to vague. None of the roads are marked closed so you never really know if you are taking a road that is ok to drive on or not. Plus the map doesn't show all the roads that are open. It makes it hard to follow the rules! It seems to me that it could be very easy to get cited trying to do the right thing! Oh and no downed animal pickup either. Oh well at least i got an elk tag Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Non-Typical Solutions Report post Posted August 13, 2012 There was a good discussion about this at the AZ Elk Society elk clinic. All of the forests are required to have a travel management plan in place and as stated above are in different stages of publishing them. Coconino was reported to have the best motor vehicle map (dated 4/15/2012) with dispersed camping (allowed within 300 feet) marked by dots along the road on the map...either one or both sides of road. Clear as mud. Looking at the map right now, 295E looks to be open to dispersed camping in most sections, but some sections not marked with dots. Based on the explanation given at the clinic, the areas with no dots were still open to camping but 30 foot limit instead of 300 foot. (Note that I'm no expert...this is my understanding) It was recommended to check out the FS website for updated travel management plan for whichever forest you're using. Looking right now for Apache-Sitgreaves because I don't want to be in the same situation on my scouting trip this weekend in 27... http://www.fs.fed.us...t.shtml#Arizona Good luck! If you don't mind let me know how your trip to 27 goes. I have plans of going in to 27 in two weeks for a scouting trip. Thanks, Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
couesdiehard Report post Posted August 13, 2012 Ya i have a 5bn elk tag this year and scouting has been really frustrating! I picked up a FS map they are handing out showing you the roads that are open and it sucks it is way to vague. None of the roads are marked closed so you never really know if you are taking a road that is ok to drive on or not. Plus the map doesn't show all the roads that are open. It makes it hard to follow the rules! It seems to me that it could be very easy to get cited trying to do the right thing! Oh and no downed animal pickup either. Oh well at least i got an elk tag As I understood it in Coconino forest if the road is shown on the Travel Plan map it is open. If it is not shown on the map it is closed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZHUNTER05 Report post Posted August 13, 2012 Ya i have a 5bn elk tag this year and scouting has been really frustrating! I picked up a FS map they are handing out showing you the roads that are open and it sucks it is way to vague. None of the roads are marked closed so you never really know if you are taking a road that is ok to drive on or not. Plus the map doesn't show all the roads that are open. It makes it hard to follow the rules! It seems to me that it could be very easy to get cited trying to do the right thing! Oh and no downed animal pickup either. Oh well at least i got an elk tag As I understood it in Coconino forest if the road is shown on the Travel Plan map it is open. If it is not shown on the map it is closed. If you swing by and pick up the map it has a list of roads that aren't shown you can drive on. But the problem is you don't know exactly when they end and most of the roads arent that well marked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
