So the FS is expecting us to be psychics...

[couesdiehard]

Ya i have a 5bn elk tag this year and scouting has been really frustrating! I picked up a FS map they are handing out showing you the roads that are open and it sucks it is way to vague. None of the roads are marked closed so you never really know if you are taking a road that is ok to drive on or not. Plus the map doesn't show all the roads that are open. It makes it hard to follow the rules! It seems to me that it could be very easy to get cited trying to do the right thing! Oh and no downed animal pickup either. Oh well at least i got an elk tag

As I understood it in Coconino forest if the road is shown on the Travel Plan map it is open. If it is not shown on the map it is closed.

 

If you swing by and pick up the map it has a list of roads that aren't shown you can drive on. But the problem is you don't know exactly when they end and most of the roads arent that well marked.

Ok I get what you are saying. They sure want to make it as confusing as humanly possible don't they?

[ThomC]

Look on the bright side.

 

Road hunters will have a tougher time.

Real hunters will not have their stalks messed up by Roades.

The Elk will be more relaxed because they are not hearing hoochy mamas all day.

[couesdiehard]

Look on the bright side.

 

Road hunters will have a tougher time.

Real hunters will not have their stalks messed up by Roades.

The Elk will be more relaxed because they are not hearing hoochy mamas all day.

I'm not so sure about that. Not enough FS personnel to patrol even a small percentage of these forests so roadies are going to do what they do and most of them won't get caught. So those of us who try to follow the rules will be watching roadies fly up and down the "closed" roads all day long anyway and they will probably camp in spots that aren't open either. I was drawn for archery bull in 5A and I don't have high hopes to be honest. I fully expect a real circus between people who don't know or care about the closures, the FS staff who don't seem to clear on the rules, and those of us trying to do the right thing.

[DUG]

So are we supposed to tell people we see on closed roads? Do we just look the other way? It's kind of like yelling at the guy speeding on your street to slow down. He's either going to keep going or come back and try to kick your butt, because he doesn't want to be told what to do. Obviously it will do no good to call Forest service or Game & Fish. They will have to catch people in the act to cite them. My elk area has lots of closed roads. Will be interesting for sure to see what other people do. Some roads have the closed sign on them but at the other end of that road there is no road closed sign. That doesn't help either. I have been up the last 2 weekends and nobody has really been in the area I like to hunt.

[cw4192]

this will only cause camping problems and arguments between hunters. too many people camping along a "open road" and off road vehicles going all day and night is gonna cause big problems. Forest service better have 2-4 man vehicles to monitor this.

[6ANut]

There has been FS on the roads from munds park to morman mountain every weekend. They have been giving out free maps and advice. I have seen them ticketing both campers and people using the roads that are closed. With talking with one FS member they were giving lots of tickets for is this whole 30 feet or 300 feet camping. Best advice he gave was have one of them follow you out to your camping spot if possible. I feel having a camp less than 30 yards off the road is a safety issue, i hope im wrong. Regardless good luck to those camping and using the roads cause nothing is marked. Two of my favortie roads I now get to walk down which IMO is how hunting should be, too many roads no safe place for animals.

[Snapshot]

Liberal tree huggers are infiltrating the FS. They will shut down the forest, one road at a time.

[Antmo23]

There was a good discussion about this at the AZ Elk Society elk clinic. All of the forests are required to have a travel management plan in place and as stated above are in different stages of publishing them. Coconino was reported to have the best motor vehicle map (dated 4/15/2012) with dispersed camping (allowed within 300 feet) marked by dots along the road on the map...either one or both sides of road. Clear as mud. Looking at the map right now, 295E looks to be open to dispersed camping in most sections, but some sections not marked with dots. Based on the explanation given at the clinic, the areas with no dots were still open to camping but 30 foot limit instead of 300 foot. (Note that I'm no expert...this is my understanding)

 

It was recommended to check out the FS website for updated travel management plan for whichever forest you're using. Looking right now for Apache-Sitgreaves because I don't want to be in the same situation on my scouting trip this weekend in 27...

http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/map/state_list.shtml#Arizona

 

 

 

 

 

Good luck!

 

See, exactly my point. Youre half right and half wrong, here's your ticket. We were less than 30 ft off of the 295E and I still got a warning. The roads marked with dots are 300 ft camping, some of those without the dots are open to camping 30ft from the road. 295E is closed to ALL camping. And it's not marked. Some roads are open, some are not and there is only a confusing map (that the FS isn't even sure about) to use. Its camping roulette and it's total bull$hit. Either clearly mark the closed roads or keep your tickets in your pocket.

 

[bojangles]

since when was the forrest service allowed to be the department of transportation? You know what, we are either gonna get organized and united and get some laws passed, or, our kids won't be allowed to hunt.

 

 

Bottom line.

[reganranch]

since when was the forrest service allowed to be the department of transportation? You know what, we are either gonna get organized and united and get some laws passed, or, our kids won't be allowed to hunt.

 

 

Bottom line.

 

Speak the truth.

[naturegirl]

this whole thing angers me. I think FS needs a lawsuit to challenge this. I 100% agree with some restrictions but the majority of us stay on trails anyhow. the people that don't aren't going to no matter what the rules are. and I'm angered that roads I've used for 10 years now are closed. now some of these roads yes I agree with. they go nowhere or there are other roads that get u to the same spot. BUT some of the closed roads are the only way to get from point a to point b, but I'm gonna take this up with them by filling out the proposed change form.

 

don't even get me started with camping 10 yards off a road. half my family has asthma and can't sit in the dust from the roads. we have a 5th wheel so its not like we go far anyways but i don't like camping 30 or even 300 feet from certain well traveled roads because of the dust.

[willhunt4coues]

Just wait till some drunk is flying down a back road during elk season with his hoochie mama in his shirt pocket and he loses control and runs a tent or 2 over. Now maybe with the 300' rule he would have plowed into a tree before he hit the tents. Lets just face it FS is too lazy to walk over 30 feet off the road. Thats all this is is laziness on their part.

[THE RIFLEMAN]

More areas closed means that eventually there will be less areas that need patroling.....The FS also wants the revenue from hunters staying in one of their developed "pay" camp grounds! This eventually adds up to more money to buy doughnuts and more time to eat them! Wilderness camping will be a thing of the past in 20 years or less! BIG BRUTHA IS WATCHING!

It would also be interesting to know if they are ticketing regular weekend campers or just the evil hunters!

[THE RIFLEMAN]

Just wait till some drunk is flying down a back road during elk season with his hoochie mama in his shirt pocket and he loses control and runs a tent or 2 over. Now maybe with the 300' rule he would have plowed into a tree before he hit the tents. Lets just face it FS is too lazy to walk over 30 feet off the road. Thats all this is is laziness on their part.

Great point I can see the FS being named/included in a suit , especially if this happened on one of the roads marked as primative/not maintained ... The liability assumed by the FS is negligent on this one!

[mbiewer]

Well a few key points to remember:

 

#1 USFS (the group behind -at least the enforcement of - the closures is a federal agency. These closures arent coming through the state, but going nationwide. So yes, it will affect more than just coconino in the long run

-Use the tools that are available to us as outdoor enthusiasts: like someone mentioned before, this was an extremely discussed topic around elk draw time.maps (links easily found on coco's website even downloadable to smart phone), and other hunter expereinces (after all, that is wha the forum is truely founded on). From the ten years i had my jeep, if the road wasnt numbered, more than likely it "didnt exist" and or wasnt a legal road. It adds another step to the preparation process.

#2 An uneducated hunter is more detrimental to the outdoors way of life than an educated "anti". They dont show the thousands of us on the news for getting a clean shot, hiking and packing an animal out but the "drive by hunters" and poachers are always helping to fuel the regulatory fires.

#3 it does absoluely suck to be singled out. Ive been spot checked (or better yet, my camp has been) during a trukey and javelina hunts only to see the warden turn and drive past the other camps that were in close proximiy. My experiences both as a witness to and a reciever of LEO interactions (just like anything else in life) Attitude is key. Getting frustrated is part of being human, how we deal with those frustrations is part of being an adult.

* i've been on plenty of local LEO ride alongs and have seen many people honestly and respectfully come to a new understanding about what went wrong either with or without getting the infraction.

#4 Would you want to be in their shoes? how many guns, knives, or various implements of destruction do you take with you on an outing (hunting or camping...) to have a lone game warder or forest ranger be out on their own with the only possible support being ____ miles away? they may be edgy or even stand offish to have to enforce something that comes from a ruling from across the country by suit & ties.

 

Much like the falacy of gun control... the closures wont keep the rule breakers from doing what they arent supposed to. But with the federal closures, an overactive preservation of sorts, will make it easier to spot the ones out there being where they arent supposed to be. However, it is much easier to say "the forest is being damaged, nobody can use it". (Similar to what they did with bull dog canyon east of mesa by the river,... and what will happen eventually out by sycamore creek).

 

It is a drastic measure on their part. It does force us as a group to adapt our ways. There is no telling what the winds of change will bring for many of us as we are still active enthusiasts, and certainly unpredictable for generations to come.