Need Help: Tips Deforming in Magazine

[Coues Sniper]

Looking for some help here. I have a 300 RUM, Remington 700 Titanium action, and carbon barrel. Whenever the rifle is fired, the the ballistic tips (currently 208 grain A-Max) of the shells in the magazine get deformed. I've tried factory loads and seating bullets deeper with same result. Guy who built it says it's beacuse the gun is so light that the recoil of the rifle vs the inertia of the bullet causes the shells to get slammed into the front of the magazine. Rifle is braked, and recoil doesn't seem excessive to me. The bad part is: he says he can't fix it. I asked if he stiffened up the magazine spring would that help, and he told me it wouldn't. He says he has built others on Ti actions similar to mine that have actually snapped screws on Leupold scope rings. His only possible solution was to add an HS Precision Detachable Mag Box as this has worked before, but would make no promises. Anyone have any other solutions? Is the HS mag box a good idea? Maybe a better brake? Right now all I can use this rifle for past 100 yards or so is a single shot which isn't what I paid for.

 

Thanks in advance.

[reganranch]

That's totally weird I've never seen/heard or encountered a promblem like that. I have a 300 ultra and a couple friends and no issues resembling that have ever occurred all on 700 platforms also. After one shot do all the rounds in the magazine get busted up or just the next one in line under the bolt?

[Coues Sniper]

After one shot do all the rounds in the magazine get busted up or just the next one in line under the bolt?

All rounds in magazine get deformed. Like you took a hammer and smashed the tip.

[308Nut]

Your smith's statements are correct regarding the light weight rifle/muzzle energy ratio being the culprit. Even with a brake, a rig that light driving bullets that heavy with that big of a case is going to generate more than average recoil. It may not seem that bad to you which could be stock design, recoil pad etc...but that recoil energy is still there. He is also right in the regard that stiffening the spring won't fix the problem Not sure about another magazine systems but doubt that in and of itself would fix your problem.

 

Those polymer tips are typically VERY tough. Recoil shouldn't smash them despite the fact that it is happening. That said, call Hornady as see if they have had any other complaints about that particular lot# - OR - try another lot# of 208's. It may be as simple as a bad mix of polymer. OR try 210 Bergers which don't have a polymer tip.

 

Unfortunately, there is rarely a free lunch. Performance comes at a price. In your case, you are trying to have high performance in the weight area AND you are trying to have high performance in the exterior ballistics area. Either is very achiveable but together often causes problems such as what you are seeing and 100 other things you just cannot foresee until you get there.

 

I have some experience with 'light weight' rifles in BIG calibers such as my 338 Edge. 1: I absolutely LOVE the 338 Edge as a cartridge and what it is capable of. 2: I absolutely LOVE everything about that rifle, EXCEPT the fact that this rifle is chambered in 338 Edge. Take your rifle and then add another 92 grains of bullet. It does not work as well as I had hoped for. Both the caliber AND my rifle are awesome but together they don't mix well.

 

I don't like using my hunting rifles as a single shot either but is sometimes what happens when you start trying to milk every yard down range. Some times it's due to case capacity for extra velocity and other times its because you trying to fine tune a load by driving them into the lands. We try not to resort to these so as to keep them in the magazine but sometimes it just is not in the cards. Both of my primary rifles have loads that for their peak accuracy AND performance, are too long for the magazine even though both are extended boxes. Most of my hunting I will carry something in the magazine that fits for 'emergencies' but if I need long shots then I have bullets to be loaded indavidually. For my 308, I am lucky to have all my loads fit the magazine but it does not offer the performance of my 338 Edge or my 6.5x284 either. My loads for the 338 which offer peak accuracy wont fit the magazine. The loads I have that do fit offer only average accuracy. For my 6.5x284 I get good accuracy with loads that will just fit the magazine but phenominal accuracy happens when they are just a hair bit too long.

 

None of this may be what you want to hear but it is part of the game you are trying to play.

 

Welcome to the world of high performance rifles.

[reganranch]

Great info 308Nut very intelligent stuff! Would seeking a less "hot" round solve this gentlemens problem like switching to 150/165/ i think bergers are 168/ or possibly 180 grain bullets. Are these recoil reductions significant enough to stop his problem?

[elkhunter]

What about copper rounds? They don't have tips on them?

[Coues Sniper]

Thank for the reply Mike, I always respect your posts. I wasn't quite hoping for a free lunch... just maybe a 5 Star meal off the 99 cent menu . Not sure what I can do then. I'd rather not put the HS box in if it's not going to fix anything. I don't think it is a bad lot as I have had the issue with Scirocco's, Noslers, and now the A-Max's. I even seated the A-Max's deeper to avoid the issue, but no luck. I LOVE the weight and balance of this rifle, and it's about 7 lbs scoped and loaded so it carries like a dream. And the accuracy is fantastic. Ahhh man. Pretty bummed.

 

Tyler, I had the same issue with 180's, and I'd rather not go any smaller than that as I lose downrange performance. Part of that free lunch equation Mike was talking about

.

 

Elkhunter, I may look into something like that. The Bergers are another bullet I would like to use (high BC), but although they are all copper they have a fragile, hollow tip.

[Coues Sniper]

By the way Mike, what are you pushing those 300 grain Bergers at out of the Edge? Considering one for my next build, but it will be a "close to the truck" rifle

[azgutpile]

I have a kimber Montana 300 WSM that I have same issues with. I ended up going with the Bergers because of accuracy and the tips don't seem to deform. The other thing issue you got to keep your eyes open to the recoil pushing the bullets in deeper.

 

Have you tried shooting the damaged tips at longer distance? I sho a few of the ones I had and didn't seem to effect the accuracy too much.

[reganranch]

Thank for the reply Mike, I always respect your posts. I wasn't quite hoping for a free lunch... just maybe a 5 Star meal off the 99 cent menu . Not sure what I can do then. I'd rather not put the HS box in if it's not going to fix anything. I don't think it is a bad lot as I have had the issue with Scirocco's, Noslers, and now the A-Max's. I even seated the A-Max's deeper to avoid the issue, but no luck. I LOVE the weight and balance of this rifle, and it's about 7 lbs scoped and loaded so it carries like a dream. And the accuracy is fantastic. Ahhh man. Pretty bummed.

 

Tyler, I had the same issue with 180's, and I'd rather not go any smaller than that as I lose downrange performance. Part of that free lunch equation Mike was talking about

.

 

Elkhunter, I may look into something like that. The Bergers are another bullet I would like to use (high BC), but although they are all copper they have a fragile, hollow tip.

 

Definetly man I totally understand I wouldn't want to shoot a lower grain through my ultra either thats like having a ferrari and putting cheap tires on it.

[308Nut]

By the way Mike, what are you pushing those 300 grain Bergers at out of the Edge? Considering one for my next build, but it will be a "close to the truck" rifle

 

2725FPS. Using 89.0 grains of H1000. I love the caliber and the 300VLD. The 300 grain bullets is what makes the big 338's what they are. If you need 200's to 225's, there is no need for such a big case. For smaller 338's, they cant get the 300 grainers up fast enough to retain enough velocity for expansion at long range. So IMHO, the 338 Edge/RUM/Lapua and the 300 grain pills are a match made in heaven. For a 'close to the truck rifle' or one you intend on hiking into some hill top to remain for a few days, the 338/300 grain cartridges are the way to go. They are as easy to tune as a 308 and deliver amazing amounts of down range energy with the least amount of wind drift.

 

In a 'lightweight' rifle they just hammer me way too much. With the high recoil it is hard to keep 'flyers' to a minimum. The overall accuracy has been decent just somewhat inconsistent when she bounces all over the place. I can load down to 225's with reduced velocities to manage recoil better but then I am limited on range and I don't need a 28" barrel rifle while still hunting in the brush AND what I can do with the 225's at a reduced velocity I can do with a 338 Win mag. Hence the reason they just don't mix too well. It is in a kind of no mans land. Not consistent enough for serious, clean long range work and geared up for long range work and too big and bulky to the point that it is not optimum for a still hunting rifle.

 

Like you, I LOVE the fit, feel, balance, function, carry charecteristics and look of this rifle. Just not the way it kicks and subsequently the way it shoots (or the way I shoot it because of it). I will most likely convert this rifle to a 300WSM or maybe a 338WMS (wildcat).

 

Try the 210 Bergers. I have not had any trouble with the 300VLD tips in the 338 Edge deforming while in the magazine. Worst case scenario is they don't hold up and you wasted 40 dollars. Best case scenario is you get your 5 star meal for $40.00.

[kwp]

How much longer is your magazine length that OAL? I'm wondering if there is too much room for the cartridge to move allowing it to get some momentum when hitting the end of the magazine. Could you seat your bullets longer, closer to magazine length? If not, is there room to fit something in the magazine, maybe a softer material that would soften the impact and allow less movement?

 

I don't have any experience with your specific problem, just throwing out some thoughts.

[Coues Sniper]

By the way Mike, what are you pushing those 300 grain Bergers at out of the Edge? Considering one for my next build, but it will be a "close to the truck" rifle

 

2725FPS. Using 89.0 grains of H1000. I love the caliber and the 300VLD. The 300 grain bullets is what makes the big 338's what they are. If you need 200's to 225's, there is no need for such a big case. For smaller 338's, they cant get the 300 grainers up fast enough to retain enough velocity for expansion at long range. So IMHO, the 338 Edge/RUM/Lapua and the 300 grain pills are a match made in heaven. For a 'close to the truck rifle' or one you intend on hiking into some hill top to remain for a few days, the 338/300 grain cartridges are the way to go. They are as easy to tune as a 308 and deliver amazing amounts of down range energy with the least amount of wind drift.

 

Try the 210 Bergers. I have not had any trouble with the 300VLD tips in the 338 Edge deforming while in the magazine. Worst case scenario is they don't hold up and you wasted 40 dollars. Best case scenario is you get your 5 star meal for $40.00.

A 300 grain pill, with a BC of over .8, traveling at 2700 fps does sound like a match made in heaven . Really thinking about building one. EVERYONE says those are a pussycat to tune.

And I have about 35 or so of the 210 Bergers left. I never shot those in the magazine as I was only doing load development and I was trying to shorten my OAL, when that might have been counterintuitive. I think I still have a few loaded up, I'll give them a shot and see what happens when the rifle gets back.

 

Thanks for the help Mike

[Coues Sniper]

Have you tried shooting the damaged tips at longer distance? I sho a few of the ones I had and didn't seem to effect the accuracy too much.

I have, and yeah it was pretty significant. I only tried long distance a few times and it was only like 430 yards if I recall, but the point of impact was about 12" different. I didn't pursue it much after that as it seemed a waste of time and barrel life. I'll give the Bergers a shot again. As I told Mike, I tried them but never with a full magazine.

 

 

How much longer is your magazine length that OAL? I'm wondering if there is too much room for the cartridge to move allowing it to get some momentum when hitting the end of the magazine. Could you seat your bullets longer, closer to magazine length? If not, is there room to fit something in the magazine, maybe a softer material that would soften the impact and allow less movement?

 

I don't have any experience with your specific problem, just throwing out some thoughts.

I forget how much I trimmed off the magazine length to get the OAL to be honest. The rifle and info is still with the smith, I'll look at it when it returns. And you may have a point with the case having room to jump. I always loaded the shells as far back as I could thinking that would keep them from impacting the front of the magazine as much as possible, but that just made the jump as large as possible. Good points to consider. I'd hate to have to put something in the magazine. Just thinking what could possibly happen if it came looses at the worst possible moment... When I get her back I'll see if anything makes sense, but I'm going to see what the tips on the Bergers do first. Thanks for taking the time to help out