Leaving a Bull overnight

[TwoGuns]

Just hope you find it early enough in the morning before someone else does and takes it. It sucks to find a gut pile...

[naturegirl]

this is a tough topic because there is an unlimited amount of scenerios that could present. I have done good I. my first 4 years of hunting to only take shots I'm 100% comfortable with. does this mean I've had many missed opportunities because I wasn't confident in the shot...yes. but 3 of 3 animals that I have shot I've recovered within 10 feet of where I shot it. I like close shots with a bow and only distances I've practiced with a rifle.

 

I know eventually something will go wrong but I want to keep the odds in my favor thru practice and good shots. it takes restraint to pass up shots

[Sneaker]

One thing to think about, my brother arrowed a buck at last light a few years ago. We were not confident in the shot placement, let him sit overnight, and when we tracked him down in the morning, the coyotes had got to him and there was not an ounce of meat left on his entire body!!

[twigsnapper]

The worst feeling in the world is not knowing the fate of an animal. I would rather lose the meat to spoilage then push an animal in to dark. My 2 cents.

[COOSEFAN]

Years ago I was at Casey's in Flagstaff dropping off some bulls when a guy drove up with a bull in the back of his truck. He told Casey he had shot the bull the night before and had retrieved it at daybreak. Right away Casey told him the meat was probably already bad and proceeded to stick a long bladed knife into the neck meat and made a quick ten inch cut. The rotten smell instantly hit everyone that was standing in the area. He made it pretty clear that it is important to do your best to try and retrieve elk if at all possible.

I carry several flashlights and a UV light for tracking blood at night. The blood you find close to the shot should determine if tracking should be immediate or not. David

 

The only time I track immediately is if I see or hear the bull crash. I've walked up on and pushed way too many wounded bulls and almost every time that happens the chances of finding him again are drastically reduced. A wounded bull with a marginal hit usually won't go very far before laying down the first time, especially if he wasn't spooked bad prior to the shot. This first time he lays down is right where you want him to stay!!! Once a marginal hit bull get's up from his first bed he can and will go for a long time before bedding again which greatly increases your chances of loosing him. I see it happen every year!

 

David, I would guarantee that Casey didn't automatically assume the meat was bad just because the guy left it out overnight, UNLESS it was a Late hunt, in that case I would assume the same. On the early hunts, if you leave a bull out overnight and find him right away the next morning and cut and hang him right away, you'll have very minimal meat loss and sometimes none at all. I would guess Casey assumed the meat was bad because the bull was probably not boned out and just laying exposed to the sun in back of the truck? Especially if he went straight for the neck with a knife, that's the first meat that will go bad if you don't bone it out asap!

 

I'm sure you all can tell I don't take wounding and losing bulls lightly, it's the worst thing ever, but how you treat the situation immediately after the shot is what will determine the outcome. Sometimes a loss just happens regardless of what you do and it's out of your control, but usually it has everything to do with how you handle the situation right after the arrow or bullet hits the bull!

[azgutpile]

Coosefan,

The last bull I shot was double lung shot, a little high and back, but it still hit both lungs. When we started tracking the bull, he didn't bleed at all for atleast 50 yards; in addition, he bugled after the shot. We waited an hour before tracking and found him after 150 - 200 yards dead. Have you seen double lung shots, or other solid shots that didn't show the typical signs?

 

On another hunt, I was with my father when he shot a bull quartering away (entered right at the last rib at about mid height), while it was on its knees drinking out of a trick tank. The arrow went all the way up to the fletching and the bull started bleeding right away. We waited the hour, thinking it was a great shot, and then started tracking. The first 150 yards of tracking was easy, with a blood trail that looked like it came out of a garden hose and almost completly ended when we found one big clot of blood and after that blood got really thin. Luckily it had rained the day before, so we were able to track him by his tracks alone for another 1.6 mile (GPS). He never layed down; however, you could see where he went under the trees and circled around a bit then kept walking. We started tracking right at dark and stopped for the night shortly after we found the chunk of clot. After loosing the bull, my dad hasn't even considered putingt in for elk again. So you can see that I would like to learn as much as I can from these experiences. Any insight would be appreciated.

[Tines]

Jim shared some really good info and I hope most pay attention to it. Not to "hi-jack" Jims answer but I'll share my .02.

 

Sometimes what appears to be a "solid hit" might end up with a dead bull 2 miles later (and that's if you're lucky). The important thing is to be honest with yourself in the shot, angle and the signs that are present following. I've seen a few shots similar to yours where very little blood was evident and luckily had the same outcome as you. Try tracking a bull not bleeding much in cinders. SUCKS! Every scenario is different but this is what I've seen. The slowest death is generally going to be a gut shot. They'll become toxic before they die from anything else so it's an indicator that if they're not pushed by you, other hunters, or other predators, they usually won't go more than a couple hundred yards. That's also not suggesting you'll find them DRT either. It does, however, increase your odds in finding him if he had nothing but the clock working against him. And not every gut shot is the same either. Some need much more time than others. More than we want to give, sometimes.

 

This reminds me of a bull we hit far back one evening and backed out until the next morning. About 730am we bumped him not 150yds from where he was hit. We never found him again. Another hunter sitting in a blind watched this bull slowly and painfully walk into a waterhole a couple of evenings later and confirmed where he was hit. We continued to look for that bull even after the hunter went home and never found him. More than likely the bull didn't survive given his poor condition and where he was hit.

 

On a brighter note, most bulls found the next day that I've taken part in have been spared. Luckily I haven't had one "stolen" and I hope that never changes either. I think sometimes we get tunnel vision when things aren't "typical" in a tracking job. Time can be your enemy but it can also be the only thing working in your favor. These are big animals that a lot of times need "big time". The "crash", as Jim explained, is a wonderful sound. That's about as ideal as you can get. But focus more on what signs and sounds are present before and while tracking is taking place, NOT that the shot "looked perfect" so it should have the desired results.

[CEI]

CooseFan & Tines hit it spot on in my opinion. I have also seen far too many bulls pushed after the shot. It happens every year! Unfourtunately, you typically have to learn the hard way, but the important thing is you learn from it and don't repeat your mistakes. Hopefully, any new bowhunters or young hunters out there take these experiences they read about to heart.

 

Bull Elk are tough mother suckers!

[payson ff]

Keep as much heat away from meat.. That said... Get the hide off as soon as possible ( Always get alot of Good PIC's 1st) Cotton pillow case's are the best Discount and Cheap. You can wet them and hang them. Understand do not over fill heat is heat. hang them in the shade and cool the meat asap. water will not hurt game meat (other than if you soak it) Keep your meat clean and cool... get it to a cooler asap

Smell it... if it is bad the meat will be sour......... the bone area will sour 1st and than work out so if you ??????? the smell have your buddy check it a new nose will will pick it up.

Good luck shoot true

[COOSEFAN]

Coosefan,

The last bull I shot was double lung shot, a little high and back, but it still hit both lungs. When we started tracking the bull, he didn't bleed at all for atleast 50 yards; in addition, he bugled after the shot. We waited an hour before tracking and found him after 150 - 200 yards dead. Have you seen double lung shots, or other solid shots that didn't show the typical signs?

 

 

I've seen similar shots like you described many times in the past and the outcome is never predictable. High, low or back, a shot can appear to be in the lungs when in actuality it just missed them or barely caught one. You just never know for sure unless you see him crash or tip over. Also, just like Tines said, you have to be honest with yourself about what the shot placement and angle actually was, especially when relaying the event to the person/s helping you. WAY too many times in the past I've tracked bulls that were supposedly "Double Lunged" when in actuality they weren't, and there are some that I unfortunately never found out where the hit was! When your adrenaline is flowing and you replay the event in your mind, it's easy for the facts to get jumbled up or you are afraid to admit to yourself the shot was bad. Stay focused and truthful on exactly what you saw and heard.

 

The split second when your arrow or bullet takes flight is when you become a "detective"! Try your hardest to remember exactly how the animal was standing and where you actually saw the impact if possible. Mark exactly where you were sitting/standing and also mark the tracks the bull left on impact. One big thing to always remember is to use your ears immediately following the impact. Listen for direction of travel, if the bull stops or keeps going, for heavy breathing, for an arrow slapping trees (easier back in the aluminum days)or for other elk running that you know aren't the bull you hit. After being patient and waiting the appropriate time, get on the track and pay close attention to his stride, direction of travel, any irregular identifying marks to his hooves, if one hoof is hitting harder or favoring a side, is blood on both sides of the track, is there bubbles in the blood, dark red, light red, clear etc.. Like I said earlier, take your time, mark the last blood, and make note of every last detail.

 

Couple scenarios that come to mind:

 

We once had a client that shot a bull, said it was double lunged perfectly, and almost tipped over in sight. Was right at dark and to be safe (because I rarely believe shot placement is actually where I'm told unless I see it first hand) we waited till first light the next day. We found very little blood and spent 2 days looking for that bull with several guys doing circles the entire time. We killed that same exact bull the next year, alive and healthy, with a different client and the previous clients broadhead with several inches of shaft were still embedded in his spine!

 

Another instance, I had a client shoot a bull and I couldn't see the shot, but she said it was perfect. Waited 5 hours and got on the track with very little blood. The bull was drooling and the spit had bubbles in it which when dry was still visible on the rocks. My friend and I crawled around for 3/4 of a mile following dried spit and tracks and very luckily found the gut shot bull!

 

Another, Last year, you all remember the big thread about the bull that was shot and lost because another guide ran in on the bull after our client shot him. That bull was supposedly hit with a high double lung and everyone thought the bull was lost because the other outfitter pushed the bull. The bull was pushed but was never going to die. The shot was actually above the spine in the straps and had completely healed up 2 weeks later. My rifle hunter and I got to inspect that one up close ;-)

 

I can go on and on with past experiences. Elk are typically hard to kill. Even solid double lung hits can be long and tricky track jobs. Just pay attention to every last detail and don't rush it! JIM>

[huntlines]

I used to never worry about this issue, that is until the last two elk hunts I was on. 2010 and 2011 My dad and I had bad experiences with leaving a bull overnight. I have always been of the opinion to leave a bad hit animal overnight and have had great success in finding the animal the next day. The last two elk hunts were different and not due to loss of meat but to the entire animal. My dad and I both had elk taken by other hunters before we could track them down the next day. Yes someone got lucky and happened to stumble onto our bulls early the next morning and take them before we could track them up. Read my post on Sweet and sour" elk hunt I posted last year and it will give all the details. If it ever happens again I don't know if I will be able to wait overnight.........

[azgutpile]

I used to never worry about this issue, that is until the last two elk hunts I was on. 2010 and 2011 My dad and I had bad experiences with leaving a bull overnight. I have always been of the opinion to leave a bad hit animal overnight and have had great success in finding the animal the next day. The last two elk hunts were different and not due to loss of meat but to the entire animal. My dad and I both had elk taken by other hunters before we could track them down the next day. Yes someone got lucky and happened to stumble onto our bulls early the next morning and take them before we could track them up. Read my post on Sweet and sour" elk hunt I posted last year and it will give all the details. If it ever happens again I don't know if I will be able to wait overnight.........

 

I remember thread... It would definitely be on my mind if I were in the same situation.

[Brian Payne]

I want to throw a little twist into this discussion. A few years back my brother hit a bull in the neck right in front of the front shoulder right at dark. We made the half hour drive back to camp, took our time making and eating dinner and then went back to look for the bull. We got back 2.5-3 hours from the time he hit the bull. We immediately found a lot of blood. Blood was running down both of the bulls front legs and every step he left a foot print of blood. We were sure we would find him pretty quick. We followed the blood for about a mile in the dark with no trouble following it. Then we found where the bull laid down. There was blood in his bed and then nothing. He had obviously clotted up and stopped bleeding once he stopped running. We looked for the bull quite a bit for the next few days and never found him. We are not sure if the bull survived or later died from infection or what. With how much the bull was bleeding I think he would have bled out and died if we would have pushed him but because he layed down and his heart stopped pumping as hard he was able to clot up. I think there is a time when an animal is not hit in the vitals but is bleeding heavily that it is better to push them so they will bleed out and die.

[Tines]

I want to throw a little twist into this discussion. A few years back my brother hit a bull in the neck right in front of the front shoulder right at dark. We made the half hour drive back to camp, took our time making and eating dinner and then went back to look for the bull. We got back 2.5-3 hours from the time he hit the bull. We immediately found a lot of blood. Blood was running down both of the bulls front legs and every step he left a foot print of blood. We were sure we would find him pretty quick. We followed the blood for about a mile in the dark with no trouble following it. Then we found where the bull laid down. There was blood in his bed and then nothing. He had obviously clotted up and stopped bleeding once he stopped running. We looked for the bull quite a bit for the next few days and never found him. We are not sure if the bull survived or later died from infection or what. With how much the bull was bleeding I think he would have bled out and died if we would have pushed him but because he layed down and his heart stopped pumping as hard he was able to clot up. I think there is a time when an animal is not hit in the vitals but is bleeding heavily that it is better to push them so they will bleed out and die.

 

Brian,

Interesting twist, for sure. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable purposely pushing a bull at night but I've definitely seen it happen with other animals. I've seen it happen with antelope (because you can sometimes watch them go for miles) and I personally chased a javelina down that I put a poor shot on. Very little blood (if any) and the rain was coming. I could keep the pig in my sight while jogging behind him. I'm sure I looked like a total rookie but oh well. 2.5 miles later I finally put another arrow through him. In THAT situation it worked. And maybe in yours it would have also.

 

I think we also fail to recognize how much some of these meat shots bleed. Some bleed profusely. I hate saying it but I catch myself saying during a tracking job sometimes, "he's GOT to die soon. There's too much blood already for him NOT to die soon." But these elk are so big and require so much blood loss that it can be a little deceiving.

 

 

[Alpinebullwinkle]

My preference is to leave the bull overnight to stiffen up when bedded and then find him dead the next day or walk up on him for a closing shot. My experience is the elk will quit bleeding externally very soon after the shot but continue bleeding internally over nite which usually leads to success if patience is shown.