Arizona Bait Ban - AZGF wants "Bait" ban

[Swivelhead]

Hunters, ranchers and other wildlife enthusiasts placing salt/minerals could disperse ungulates rather than concentrate them. Natural licks probably see less use due to this phenomenon. That being said, salt is not the issue. G&F has a problem with hunters conditioning game via food.

[OpticNerd]

Seems like a lot of people here feel that we hunters need to stick together whether one agrees with the bait ban or not because if we don't pull together and stop the G&F from banning baits then this will be the stepping stone to other bans and laws made to restrict us hunters until we have no advantages left. Wow talk about your scare tactics! In my +25 years of hunting I've never had I one bad experience with the G&F. I've even been caught breaking one of the game laws and I still have not had any bad experiences with the G&F. Sure there are bound to be a few dill holes working for the G&F but the same can be said for us hunters.

 

I agree that hunters need to stick together as best we can but this doesn't mean that we have to automatically agree with curtain methods of taking game. I respectfully disagree with the majority of the people here and I'm all for the ban of baiting.

[reganranch]

Why is it so hard to believe that this is a foot in the door. The U.S. isn't what it used to be 25 years ago the days of the good ole boys are done sad but true. After 9/11 many people gave up a lot of freedoms in order to have a false security. This is no different the Goverment is a good thing when there's less of it. Let no crisis go to waste, this is not just Eric Holders proposal but many Goverment officials as well. Sounds word for word like Nietzche he wrote a lot about philosophy of States and how restrictions begin on its citizens and it's happening today. In pathology if a pathogen is virulent enough it's going to spread regardless of what anybody try's to do. If they really wanted to stop the problem they would be cutting the snakes head in Tx and not shoving down an agenda down our throats.

[ready2hunt]

I respect the right people have to own an opinon however that does not mean I respect their opinon. I think that if people actually feel that a ban baiting is really going to stop the spread of disease than you are kidding yourself.

 

I know that the G&F employees are outdoorsman/women as well but that does not mean they all agree with this either and even if they did what difference would it make.

 

The point is that this is one more law and one more restriction if it goes through, I understand that it is a proposal for now. All laws began as a proposal.

 

OpticsNerd you say- "Wow...scare tactics"----- the only thing that scares me are snakes and Zombies (snakes don't have legs...how do they move?)

 

I get annoyed with my fellow citizen who are more than happy to have someone else regulate their lives. THANK YOU to those fellow CWT members and non-members who are able to attend these day meetings and voice their concerns.

[bonuspointjohn]

Sounds like you are busy...

 

What is the ADA stance on the proposed "Bait Ban"?

ADA will probably vote on it at next meeting or at least discuss. We are all getting ready for deer season, camps, and 2 projects before the end of the year, so we will be busy...bpj

[bowsniper]

I respect the right people have to own an opinon however that does not mean I respect their opinon.

 

 

Well said!

 

Mark

[donniedent]

This is a funny discussion... I am sorry. I lived in Wyoming for a minute and they don't allow baiting of anything but bears and it didn't feel like the Soviet Union when I lived there. Now, more rules are not an answer to anything but, if there are valid points about good management of the herds then they need to be addressed. I see the same guys that complain about too few deer defending baiting. Here's a fact for you, there many animals taken every year that wouldn't otherwise be taken if not for bait. That means it is an advantage and anyone that denies it is kidding themselves. If we are so dang concerned about the fact that the herds are down then why not make it as fair chase as possible? If we don't focus on good management ALWAYS, we look selfish and we prove our detractors correct in their judgements. Its like this attitude I see all the time, "cut tags as long as I still get one every year". If we are killing more animals over bait than we would without it we should seriously look at this. Deer numbers are way down but we still want every advantage at our disposal to fill a tag. Educate yourselves and find out what is best for the wildlife and make that your number one priority... you will always be on the right side of an issue. If baiting does not effect success rate or promote CWD then fine but I doubt very highly those opposed to a baiting ban have done the research to support their veiw. I personally have zero issue with salt licks but I don't like actual food. That's just me. But I will readily give up salt licks if I knew it was better for wildlife... for whatever reason.

[ForkHorn]

Most baiting that I am aware of is utilized by archery hunters. Archery deer hunters as a whole are less than 5% successful I believe. The units that have higher success rates go to draw. Most archery deer in the strip are shot off water catchments and water in general at a higher success rate than other units. There are a ton of deer in the strip, but still if the argument to fight baiting was a smaller deer herd that should be protected ,then hunting water should also be illegal and every deer killed made mandatory reporting. (Not just archery. Which may be done away with?)

 

The deer herd issue is a drought and fire suppression issue. If baiting is viewed as the most vital issue to managing our deer herds, then I feel many more important things are being overlooked.

 

That said, this discussion is a good one. I respect everyone's opinion. There is always another side to a debate. It is encouraging that this can be discussed maturely.

[donniedent]

Excellent points. I agree that there are bigger issues. The overall point I guess I'm trying to make is that everyone wants to preserve percieved "rights" based on principle instead of science. If we walk into a commission meeting with an arguement for baiting based on pure principle and the dept provides scientific facts based on the mule deer working group studies (which is exactly what they will do) then the commission will laugh at us. Everyone wants to sit and use these arguements based on principle and "more laws"... Guys, that is not what will win this battle. Get on muledeerworkinggroup.org or read some of the elk studies and battle facts with facts. What I would do is along the same lines as the last posters comments. I'd hit them back with predator issues and show how much more of a problem it is than baiting. That's where we need to be pushing the dept. The dept avoids the predator problem like its cancer. We need to keep pushing them on it.

[huntjunkie]

I support salt licks, that means I only have to add pepper to my game meat!

[donniedent]

Lmao... Awesome! I'll sign on for that arguement! "We want pre-seasoned meat!!!!!"

[1uglydude]

From what I understand, mule deer numbers are down, but not whitetail. From what I've been told (and to a lesser extent, from my own experience), mule deer are not susceptible to baiting. If you bait, you're baiting for whitetail.

 

Here's, what bothers me about how this is happening. They say that fair chase and ethics are not the primary reason, saying the focus is CWD. But, the fact that they aren't willing to ban salt tells me that they're not being honest with us. How is a salt lick any less likely to spread disease than bait? So, it really IS about fair chase and ethics. Then, in the same presentation, they tell us that the will no longer require mandatory reporting of archery deer kills. Wonder why? They won't say it, but it's probably because they think banning bait will make archery success rates plumet.

 

I don't agree with legislating (or in this case, rulemaking) away a historically acceptable methods of take simply because you don't agree with it. Next, we will see a ban on the use of radios while hunting, laser rangefinders, or trail cameras (all things that have been banned in other states). You don't think a method you like to employ is in someone's sites? Ask the trappers how the feel about outsiders regulating their practices.

 

But, if it really is about fair chase and ethics, then JUST SAY SO. Don't use CWD as your excuse. As my grandpa was fond of saying, "don't pi ss on me and tell me it's raining!"

[JLW]

Excellent points. I agree that there are bigger issues. The overall point I guess I'm trying to make is that everyone wants to preserve percieved "rights" based on principle instead of science. If we walk into a commission meeting with an arguement for baiting based on pure principle and the dept provides scientific facts based on the mule deer working group studies (which is exactly what they will do) then the commission will laugh at us. Everyone wants to sit and use these arguements based on principle and "more laws"... Guys, that is not what will win this battle. Get on muledeerworkinggroup.org or read some of the elk studies and battle facts with facts. What I would do is along the same lines as the last posters comments. I'd hit them back with predator issues and show how much more of a problem it is than baiting. That's where we need to be pushing the dept. The dept avoids the predator problem like its cancer. We need to keep pushing them on it.

the 3 bar wildlife area ( walnut canyon enclosure ) should be an excellent example of predation! Put a fence up and keep out the deer killers and those heards #s will increase. I think last time I was there there still are collard deer there and there were students from Texas doing a study and surveys on them. It seems they addressed the predator issue a little by rebuilding 1 of the tanks up there and allowing night mnt lion hunting in that area, so they obviously know it's an issue. I don't have a problem with the "bait ban" but it won't stop there! I agree, if it is about ethics and fair chase then say so!! It would be cool to be a fly on the wall behind closed doors of the big wigs at the G&F office... we can speculate all we want on what there agendas truly are but unless we here it straight from the horses mouth it's only speculation and that drives up the price of oil from what they say.

 

James

[reganranch]

I support salt licks, that means I only have to add pepper to my game meat!

 

+1 It helps when they eat all the Oregano the hippies are growing in the forest now a days haha

[AZLance]

From what I understand, mule deer numbers are down, but not whitetail. From what I've been told (and to a lesser extent, from my own experience), mule deer are not susceptible to baiting. If you bait, you're baiting .

 

Thats funny, the only time I tried using a corn feeder, the only thing that came in was a dozen muledeer every time the feeder spun... Couldn't get the whitetail to touch the corn. The pack rats would carry it off before the Coues.