Arizona Bait Ban - AZGF wants "Bait" ban

[bowsniper]

 

Primary reason is worry about CWD, with "lesser" reasons of fair chance and hunter ethics concerns.

 

 

I love the "fair chance and hunter ethics concerns". Using dogs to tree lions and bears...........hmmmm. How long do you think until they try to ban dogs?

 

Mark

[hiawatha]

Primary reason is worry about CWD, with "lesser" reasons of fair chance and hunter ethics concerns.

 

 

I love the "fair chance and hunter ethics concerns". Using dogs to tree lions and bears...........hmmmm. How long do you think until they try to ban dogs?

 

Mark

Think I read in hunting illistrated they banned hounds in CA. All the CA hunters need to head east so the rest of them can fall into the ocean already

[1uglydude]

A little out of context but it won't matter to those that don't care.

 

I'll apologize for using the word "sold," because that was my word, not yours...and it's a loaded word.

 

As for the context, you really didn't have time to provide any, so I just reported what I heard. You certainly didn't provide the context you've given here. But, if I missed it, I also apologize for that.

 

Why should an unnatural concentration of animals around an artificial salt lick be treated any differently than a concentration of animals around bait?

 

Concerning the ban of urine products and transport of meat regulations...I was answering a specific question about baiting.

 

I didn't hear them say anything about a licensed processor. They said "packaged." If there was more said behind the scenes about what that means, I'd be interested to hear it.

[ForkHorn]

Water catchments, tanks, etc. also create unnatural concentrations of animals during the most strenuous and hardest times of the year for animals (Hottest and most dry). Baiting is just being used as a scapegoat. If CWD enters Arizona, baiting will not be the cause.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

I also see it as a witch hunt... Amazing how baits could spread CWD only if eaten??? ...so water and salt does not hold or transfer saliva? I knew they were gunna go after scent attractants next, HaHa.... Hypocracies... lots of them... they can "sell it" any dam way they please. Truth is that the Central AZ WM's units 22 and 23 have been telling us for years they were after the bait and they were only interested in driving down the harvest numbers.... only in the last few years when we trumped their call with the "Opportunity" they would be affecting did the CWD come up... typical politics.... "Sell It Boys!!" I will fight for my fello sportsman, and Sportswoman till the end and call BS on your Crony politics!! Anti Harvest is ALL this is about!!!

[reganranch]

I also see it as a witch hunt... Amazing how baits could spread CWD only if eaten??? ...so water and salt does not hold or transfer saliva? I knew they were gunna go after scent attractants next, HaHa.... Hypocracies... lots of them... they can "sell it" any dam way they please. Truth is that the Central AZ WM's units 22 and 23 have been telling us for years they were after the bait and they were only interested in driving down the harvest numbers.... only in the last few years when we trumped their call with the "Opportunity" they would be affecting did the CWD come up... typical politics.... "Sell It Boys!!" I will fight for my fello sportsman, and Sportswoman till the end and call BS on your Crony politics!! Anti Harvest is ALL this is about!!!

 

I second that notion.

[bonuspointjohn]

I was in attendance at the meeting on Saturday but did leave at noon to fulfill other obligations. One item of interest was the folks from the City of Scottsdale who appeared in force to remove archery from the McDowell Preserve. To their credit, the Commission held the line on not commenting to their plea, since it was not a listed part of the agenda. Their comments came during the Javelina section of the proposed spring hunt guidelines. there was one individual who spoke in support of the hunting in the preserve, while 6 opposed it. I filled out a blue slip and offered my own opinion that it is a slippery slope regarding the outlawing of hunting on the preserve. I also pointed out that almost all who opposed stated that they did not want to see hunting in "their backyards"... I pointed out the obvious that these are "public lands", not "their backyards" and that as a multi use, we have every right to be there and pursue hunting by archery. This is a battle that will not go away and the department and commission will be pushed further in the future. I was surprised that there were so few sportsmen at the commission meeting and even fewer from the remote locations...I thought that Lance would appear from Tucson, but I was mistaken. I also hoped that someone from the ABA would be in attendance, but that did not happen either. I know they tend to shut down for a few months prior to the archery season, but they still need to have someone watching the chicken coop while the foxes are out...JK

[bonuspointjohn]

Where is PBJ and AZSFW ???

I was at the meeting and commented regarding the activities that I was present for. The AZSFW officially has been disbanded. That took place over 3 months ago..... Where were you Lance?... I expected to hear you chime in from Tucson at the regional site.....

[pinalhunter]

At least hunters putting up camera's and salt are walking out into the woods and not just running up and down the road. Unless you are disabled drive to your spot and get out there and hunt. If they want to crack down on something I would love to see them start with that. Sorry just my two cents but unless they can show a increase in success rates due to the use of salt, which I don't believe they can then why ban it?

[Snapshot]

There has been, and always will be, the typical back room, closed door politics at Arizona G$F, Sell those tags to the sportsman, but do everything to keep the harvest numbers low. Figures!

[AZLance]

Where is PBJ and AZSFW ???

I was at the meeting and commented regarding the activities that I was present for. The AZSFW officially has been disbanded. That took place over 3 months ago..... Where were you Lance?... I expected to hear you chime in from Tucson at the regional site.....

 

Sorry, I was hunting for bad guys in unit 35.

 

But good job PBJ, were you representing AZSFW, ADA, or just your self?

[bonuspointjohn]

Where is PBJ and AZSFW ???

I was at the meeting and commented regarding the activities that I was present for. The AZSFW officially has been disbanded. That took place over 3 months ago..... Where were you Lance?... I expected to hear you chime in from Tucson at the regional site.....

 

Sorry, I was hunting for bad guys in unit 35.

 

But good job PBJ, were you representing AZSFW, ADA, or just your self?

I was representing the ADA officially (as Vice President) on the Condor issue. The ADA fully supports the AZGFD and the commission on the voluntary use of copper and we pointed out the virtual impossibility of 1) passing any laws since the CBD has lost everywhere on lead suits in the past. 2) covering the thousands of square miles would be an absolutely impossible cause and 3) garnering local support is so much more possible through cooperation rather than through litigation. Again the AZSFW has been disbanded for over 4 months now, so they are long gone. The principals had a meeting and the AZSFWC was advised that they are no longer an entity in Arizona. The AZSFWC no longer has some of the key players as members. Most resigned when the AZSFW was disbanded. I represented myself on the issue of the Mcdowell preserve and I am planning on attending the next Scottsdale meeting regarding the preserve. I also represented the PNRC during the call to the public. The PNRC wanted someone to approach the commission and the department about arranging for tags that cannot be utilized either through illness injury or death and giving them to any disabled veteran who has suffered those wounds while serving in the military. There are a lot of disabled veterans who would like to hunt and are part of the draw process. If there are tags available where someone cannot use them, we are attempting to see if there is any possible legislative effort in the future where disabled vets can get to use these tags. It is similar to the program where kids can get tags for life threatening illness. It would move some of the vets up faster to hunt and I am hoping that it will be part of the political process in the future. Again, that idea came from the PNRC (Payson Natural Resources Committee) which I am a member of through the AES and the ADA...

BPJ

[AZLance]

Sounds like you are busy...

 

What is the ADA stance on the proposed "Bait Ban"?

[bowhunter4life]

Uglydude said "As I recall, two people spoke on it (could have been three...can't remember if Koleszar spoke on that issue or not). NWTF said they would support bait ban as far as turkeys are concerned. Steve Clark spoke for himself, and not for AES, in support of the bait ban and expressed a desire that it be sold as a wildlife management concern and not an attempt to limit how people hunt.."

A little out of context but it won't matter to those that don't care.

 

Here is my take on baiting, much of it has to do with personal experience and research from groups like WAFWA, AFWA and The Wildlife Society. These groups are made up of Wildlife experts across the U.S. and Canada.

Baiting is not related to equipment, baiting is a widlife management issue. Those that say that CWD and other diseases that are caused by close proximity transmission and transmission through saliva are not of concern in AZ have their head in the sand. In a quick search on CWD it has been found in Utah near the AZ border. Others say that Arizona does not have the deer density to worry about CWD, many areas of Utah have similar deer densities and they have it already in those areas. Arizona Game and Fish is charged with the public trust of wildlife management and faces complex biological, social and economic issues. AZGFD must manage wildlife today for tomorrow.

Some quick research indicates that public baiting of game species may create a variety of pontential management concerns including; concentrating wildlife at greater than normal densities, increasing direct and indirect contact among wildlife species, detracting from wild behavior, increasing the likelihood of disease transmissions within and among species, reducing home range, affecting populaitions of non-target wildlife species, increasding competition and stress among and within the target and non-target species. These are the widlife management issues that we must be aware of. AZGFD has the responsibility to be proactive managing our wildlife. In the case of our deer adn elk herds we have a very limited resource. We as hunters need to value those resources and be responsible for our future generations.

I do care about the wildife of Arizona enough to educate myself and speak up at the Commission meetings. I worry about the next generation of hunters and how we recruit them and teach them about conservation so that they can help with the work that needs to be done. I care about issues related to access in our National Forests and much more. I do respect the AZGFD for the work they are doing and sometimes I don't agree with their ideas. When I don't agree I spend time researching the issue and if I can find a scientific or biological reason to fight them I do. I have learned that fighting an issue related to wildlife management with emotion and going against the science and biology is usually a no win situation. That is the difference between me and the envirolitigants, they use emotion to override the science because it gets news and raises money for them.

I will continue to educate myself on the issue of baiting and watch the wording very carefully. Then when the public comment period is upon us I will be there. I will also take time to get involved ahead of time with face to face meetings of the dept personel working on these issues. I am concerned. The public may not realize it but one of the reasons that areas that could support Big Horn Sheep doesn't have any is because of the threat of disease transmission from domestic sheep. These diseases are real and they are a threat to OUR widlife.

 

Those that know me know that if I thought this was an issue about restrictions to hunters I would fight it. Right now with a little research and a few phone calls I see it as a wildlife management issue.

 

A few other things that uglydude didn't tell you about is the restriction on importing scent products made with deer and elk urine. It has been proven that CWD and other diseases are spread by urine and the highest concentration of CWD has been found on deer farms, some deer farms are where they harvest the urine to make fesh urine based scents.

They are working to restrict the importation of animal carcasses from surrounding states because of diseases like CWD. You will have to bone out totally or have your meat processed by a licensed processor. You can't bring in a skull that has any meat in it. This means if ou hunt in Utah or NM and you want to bring your cape back you will have to totally cape out the head. This will affect a bunch of people that I know that don't have the expertise to cape a head.

If diseases like CWD were not one of the reasons for working on the baiting issue then the urine and meat issues wouldn't be there also.

They are also working on wording for the pick up of dead heads, sheds and horns. The wording they used was very simple and it is the same as I have always known it to be, so no black helicopter suprises there for me. They just want to put it in writing for all to understand.

Steve

Steve,

With the up most respect for you, I have to disagree with you. With that said, I also think you have done more for wildlife in the last 10 years then many of us.

 

With CWD, if this was truly an issue, concern, then salt blocks would be axis of this debate. As you know elk is the most users, then mule deer, consumer of this type of “BAIT”. They will destroy hundreds of pounds per year, all along “licking the same spot over and over. Thus having numerous elk, deer, transferring saliva over and over, so G & F is worried about our herds transferring CWD then this would be the #1 ban! But it is not, this a few personal agendas to stop a few licensed guides that use this for their benefit and an assumed harvest ratio, plus a few supervisors within the Dept. personal agenda to make it go away. The same guys that wanted to end our Sept Bull hunts just a short few years ago in the name of opportunity! We all thought they were in left field then wanting to take those hunts, but I have to think they are now back in left field.

 

Steve, can you tell me what scientific data that has documented on AZ elk, Az turkey and Az mule and coues deer on the effects of baiting? Factual data collected from Az G & F or from any hunting organizations like NWTF, AZ ELK, AZ DEER, of harvest success over baiting? Currently they use a 40% survey card to limit bowhunters to a 20% cap of success and we are the only ones that have mandatory reporting? I hear so many rumors that baiting has a high success, but there is no factual documentation to support this idea. Are you or any other person aware of this study on Az wildlife?

 

Mike

[AZLance]

Well said, Mike! But you have to remember, AZGFD does not base anything on facts, it is on emotion and their pocket book...