Obamacare Upheld.....thoughts??

[donniedent]

This healthcare bill will end up burying Obama in Nov. Mark my words. 70% of Americans don't want this and they will prove it when they vote. Obama won the battle and lost the war in decision of the Supreme Court. This just psiied a lot of people off. I'm betting O'reilly and Hannity will have record veiwers tonight. Their arrogance just cost them the whitehouse, more of the house and possibly the senate.

[Snapshot]

This healthcare bill will end up burying Obama in Nov. Mark my words. 70% of Americans don't want this and they will prove it when they vote. Obama won the battle and lost the war in decision of the Supreme Court. This just psiied a lot of people off. I'm betting O'reilly and Hannity will have record veiwers tonight. Their arrogance just cost them the whitehouse, more of the house and possibly the senate.

 

I hope you are right, but I will bet a $100 that Obama gets a second term. The main problem is that Romney is a weak candidate, and many people have doubts about him, including myself. However, I see Romney as a better alternative, and sincerely hope that if he is elected, he will bring us down a better path than the one Obama is currently walking. Obama has an agenda that will ruin the infrastructure of this country, including the collateral damage that will affect sportsman like us.

 

I truly hope that the American people wake up. I do know some people who voted for Obama, and they will not vote for him again.

[Snapshot]

On a side note........ I find it ironic that all the Dem's and liberals are accusing the Republicans of being on a witch hunt of Holder, and yet the Dem's don't mind Obama running roughshod all over us, as if America was his own personal political playground to do with as he pleases. Funny how that works!

[ready2hunt]

This healthcare bill will end up burying Obama in Nov. Mark my words. 70% of Americans don't want this and they will prove it when they vote. Obama won the battle and lost the war in decision of the Supreme Court. This just psiied a lot of people off. I'm betting O'reilly and Hannity will have record veiwers tonight. Their arrogance just cost them the whitehouse, more of the house and possibly the senate.

 

I would agree that there are many who oppose this on both sides. I hope that this translates into a large voter turnout to oust Obama. This has not only been a waste of 4 years but also we have slid downward on every major front.

[Coach]

I've been watching this topic on several forums today. Personally, I think it was a death blow by the "progressives". However, some sharp minds have also pointed out how this could blow up in Obama's face.

 

For one, it places severe limitations on the Commerce Clause. Roberts actually ruled this law unconstitional under the rules of the Commerce Clause, but ruled it constitutional as the government's right to tax.

 

Obama has clearly stated all along that this is NOT a tax - but the SCOTUS just said it is a tax.

 

Secondly, since a huge part of Obama's platform to get elected was that he would not impose ANY new taxes on the middle class, this ruling just proved that he imposed the single largest tax increase on the middle class America has ever seen.

 

So, while I believe we just got screwed, a lot of doors just opened up to use this lost battle to eventually win the war. Romney just got handed the noose to put around Obama's neck. It's time to see if he's got the balls to follow through.

 

BTW, this SCOTUS decision does not mean zero-Care can't be repealed. If played correctly, this law can be repealed AND have the added benefits of putting huge limitations on the Commerce Clause. That would be a huge win, but I'm being cautiously opptomistic.

 

On the other hand, this might have just made individual health care a caustic drain on our national economy that makes social security and medicare look like chump change.

[Jimmer Negamanee]

My beef with the Affordable Care Act is that it didn’t go far enough. I would have liked to see a public option. Instead, Obama, ever the pragmatist, allowed the insurance companies to write the law. At least it’s a step in the right direction though.

 

Like it or not, we already have universal health care coverage. We just have the most inefficient kind. The uninsured or indigent don’t get turned away from an emergency room for life-threatening (or often even not-so-life-threatening) conditions. They will get services. Expensive services that save their lives.

 

So the question then becomes who pays for those services? We all do. Hospitals write off their losses on their taxes so taxpayers pay. They also charge a boat-load more for people who do have insurance to compensate them for the losses they just wrote off. All the while, they chase people into bankruptcy trying to collect the debt they wrote off and for which they charged everyone else more. Hospitals and insurance companies do not get stuck holding the bag. Ever.

 

Health care is not a free market at all. If you don’t want a Big Mac, you can by a Whopper, or vice versa. Or you can decide to not spend your money on either. But if you go into the ER with a heart attack you don’t vote with your dollars and opt for the buy-one, get-one-free special on kidneys because it’s cheaper and that’s what you choose to spend your money on. If everyone had their druthers they would not consume health care at all. Personally, I’d just choose to be healthy.

 

We make people buy liability insurance on their automobiles, not to protect them, but to protect the people who would end up bearing the costs of being hit by an uninsured person. The analogy to health care is not perfect but seems kinda close.

 

Regarding business owners who currently offer health insurance, I’m not sure how Obamacare incentivizes (Mr. Quimby, please excuse the functional shift of attempting to use a noun as a verb. Generally, I’m against that.) employers to drop their coverage because the penalty is less than the premium.

 

For example, say the premium is $1,000/month/employee. Now, say the penalty for NOT insuring those same employees is $500/month/employee. Subtracting the penalty from the premium yields a $500 difference. Well, before Obamacare the difference was $1,000 (premium of $1,000 – 0 penalty = $1,000) but the employer still chose to insure its employees. (Although I’m still not convinced that employer-based health care is the best way to go.)

 

Finally, I agree that polls show that many people are against “Obamacare.” But when you ask those same people if they’re “for” being able to keep their kids on their health insurance until they’re 26^th birthday (or whatever the age is) or if they are “for” not allowing insurance companies to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions, a lot of people say yes. Those are both components of Obamacare.

[Coach]

Jimmer, that was a very good post. Good thoughts and reasoning. However, at what point does the Federal Government become responsible for our health care choices? A good argument could be made for the point at which an ER could/could not turn any patient away. On the surface, it seems like a good idea - I mean, if you've got a serious injury, for example, you are bleeding to death and show up at the ER, should you be denied care until someone proves you can pay for the services you need to save your life?

 

At the same time, suppose you are homeless and starving. You can't just walk into Safeway or Basha's or WalMart, load up your cart with food and walk out, and claim you have a right to the food in your cart because it it necessary to your survival. That would NEVER stand up in court.

 

So does the demand for medical treatment, even when the injury or affliction is not life-threatening, and usually self-inflicted, require John Q. Public to open his wallet once again, fall under some sort of "basic rights" assessment?

 

Personally, I am tired of getting hammered by doctors that can't collect enough from my exhorbant health care contributions every single paycheck, that they send me bills for the "gap" that my expensive insurance doesn't pay, to get in line behind the ACCCS drains that can't even remember where their kids came from, let alone take care of them. Those human pez-dispensers never pay a dime, whether it's vitamins or prescriptions, or trips to the ER for a sniffle.

 

Yeah, I'm ranting now and on a bit of tirade, but I've had it up to my neck with these liberal, "progressive", socio-economic policies that reward the the leeches and hand the bill over to those actually trying to make a modest living.

[ghost hunter]

All of us at work were just left speechless when they ruled for Obamacare. But it seems that Justice Roberts actually did us a favor. Not only did he rule that it was a "tax" which opens another round to the SCOTUS, he didn't cover it through the Commerce Clause, but more importantly, his decision all but drew a picture of how to deal with this. Basically, he challenged the US voters to vote this thing out and the people who dreamed it up. Don't know about you all, but I'm up for the challenge.

[Snapshot]

Your ponts are valid on the healthcare insurance, however, it is not the healthcare law that is so mch in question, as to how it was done. Obama and his cronies manipulated the system and used loopholes in our constitution. Obama swore up and down that the individual mandate was not a tax. Guess what? The Supreme court says it is.Anything that is enforced by the IRS is a form of tax. The Supreme court judges are nothing but politicians wearing black robes.

 

Auto insurance is required by law because we create a liability, to life, limb, and property when we drive. I do not have much sympathy for hospitals who over inflate major medical costs and don't get paid..If the costs were more reasonable, maybe more people would not default on their hospital bills? Anybody that is uninsured does not want to have mortgage sized medical payments for the rest of their life.

 

Health insurance is a great thing. I wish I could afford some. I don't need the government using strong arm tactics on me. Buy insurance or pay a fine? Really? Now if I don't pay that fine(Tax) I have the IRS goons that are more than happy to make my life miserable.

 

With our current economical state of affairs, it is not very prudent of our government to disrupt the entire healthcare system, as well as the adverse effect it will have on small business.

 

Man people are struggling to make ends meet. How are people supposed to pay for insurance when they can hardly afford life as it is?

 

This is a low blow by our government at a very bad time. Even though I am not very optimistic about Romney getting elected, I sure hope he does.

 

I really want someone to explain the logic of being taxed on something that is not purchased, owned, or used by me? I have some real issues with the legality of this.

[cw4192]

VOTE, VOTE, AND VOTE SOME MORE. THAT'S HOW HE GOT ELECTED. HE IS A TERRORIST, WORKING FROM WITH IN.

[DesertBull]

Bottom line, stay out of my personal affairs.

[DesertBull]

Instead of mandating insurance they should have eliminated it all together. The biggest reason that heathcare costs so much is that that the providers and the insurance companies are manipulating the prices. Next time you have hospital visit or stay, take a look at your bill. $50 for Tylenol, $120 for a syringe, $500 for an x-ray. These all prices that are being paid because insurance has agreed to cover it.....and pass the cost (plus mark up) on to us.

[DesertBull]

We make people buy liability insurance on their automobiles, not to protect them, but to protect the people who would end up bearing the costs of being hit by an uninsured person. The analogy to health care is not perfect but seems kinda close.

 

That is like comparing apples to chorizo. You only buy auto insurance if you want to drive. There is no mandate to drive.

[reganranch]

We had this discussion during Medical Ethics at the U of A this spring. Points were brought up (by the few intellectual students) that healthcare needs to say privatized. Government manipulation, and influence in the private sector has never essentially sowed up the wound but puts a temporary band aid on the issue. Billions of dollars is poured into healthcare research. I have worked at the USDA ARS Lab (Arid Land Research Service) the government is very short of competent. The only government agency that yields a profit annually is the Postal Service. The individual mandate is a violation of constitutional rights, an individual should not be forced to buy healthcare insurance. If an individual is healthy, exercises and eats properly and chooses not to invest in personal healthcare for his/herself and chooses to spend the money elsewhere he or she should not be held to a financial penalty. Life saving health care should remain, provided by hospitals. However, healthcare is a commodity, and not a basic need. Basic Needs for survival, are food, water and shelter. Obama was delusional thinking that the current U.S. government financial budget for the annual fiscal year could handle covering healthcare. The government almost shut down last year because they could not figure out the 2012 fiscal year budget and America wants to put one of the best healthcare systems in the world in the hands of worthless old idealist bureaucrats? Does he think he is going to cut Defense, ICE or Border Patrol funding? The next step is that the government will pay 40 cents or less to the dollar for healthcare services cutting doctors, nurses, pharmacists, office employees, second and third party pharmaceutical, and healthcare providers salaries. Financial insensitive, and competition breeds productivity. Thats the first lesson in Capitalism. What government office is proficient at anything? Has anyone ever been to the Social Security office or IRS offices its efficiency is dam near below zero, and they do the bare minimum to get by. With financial incentive that gives individuals a mentality that with hard work, one can better himself. With salary systems individuals do the bare minimum to get by, because why do a fantastic surgery when i can do an average one and get paid the same? Healthcare is a self sustaining entity and with Obamacare it will cut corners, produce mediocre care, and every talented doctor will practice in emerging countries like Australia, Dubai, Virgin Islands and Indonesia that do not restrict healthcare salaries.

[BeardownAZ]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

Very good video on how this is just more socialism under the "Do it for the children" guise.