AZHUNTER05 Report post Posted June 30, 2012 I'm thinking some people on here support obamacare after some of the comments i have read on this post. I would never wish anyone's homes to be burned. Do remember though you purchased a home in an area that was a high risk of forrest fires. It's kind of like the people in california that build a houses on the sides of a hills. Where they know every year when it rains they have mud slides that could destroy there home but they build them anyways. I can't feel sorry for those people. However if you buy a home and make sure you follow on the per cautions to keep it from burning down in a fire i would fell bad for you. Look at the engineer who built his cabin in crown king. He knew there was a high risk of his cabin being burned down so he built it out of materials that aren't as flammable and cleared trees and pine needles away from his cabin. When the fire was burning other people's cabins down his was safe. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lonne Report post Posted June 30, 2012 The initial post has fueled alot of good discussion in a lot of directions but really just want to have forest that was scouted open to go hunt, and do it responsibly. I suspect you might feel differently about forest closures if you were like my wife and I last year when we were told at 2 a.m. that the Wallow Fire was five miles away and traveling toward us at six miles per night. The firefighter's exact words were "the next time you see me, you must be prepared to leave immediately. It could be as soon as a couple of hours." We packed what little we could get into our truck and left two hours later, not expecting to see our cabin again. Bill Quimby Hi Bill - I am definitely on one side more than the other, but I never said it was black and white. We all have a good question here. Where do we draw the line? I feel the line is moving too much in the wrong direction, and options not being explored on the other side. Do I have the answers? Definitely not. But, sometimes answers our found in discussions like this. Cannot say this would be that time, but you never know when a great idea comes along. As far as feeling differently. I do not have a cabin. But I do have a 3 1/2 year old son. My wife and I were just 5 miles from the Sunflower fire camping when we smelled smoke. We thought it was a campfire and did not notice the large black cloud on the horizon. The Forest Service, to whom I'm grateful, did come flying in sirens a blazing, and it took us a few minutes to understand what was going on. I thought someone was hurt. The Forest Service personnel arrived, and were very professional and telling us to leave right away as there was a fire rapidly on its way. If the winds were right it would be on us in no time and they were already suggesting helicopters out. We packed up our camp so fast (< 15 mins) and did not even feel good about doing that. I almost could not find the keys to my jeep and almost left it there. Let me tell you we felt some serious fear driving out of there, knowing that we were on the only road out of there and the fire was less than 200 yds from the road all the way out. So, I have been there, just a month ago. What would I have done if I could not have driven out on that road? Good question...I don't know. Would I have hiked out? Is this smart? Having experience in search and rescue am one of the first to know this is not a good idea from all the countless that walk off in the Supes every year and never come back...I know the trails in that area very well, and I put in 20 miles alone the day of 9/11 in Manhattan. Don't think I would have been a dummy to just hike on out without alot of water and a very good plan ...STOP Stop Think Observe Plan...now with a forest fire coming...what would you do...Damned if you do damned if you don't like you said... Now, in regards to the closure. They closed an extremely, extremely, extremely large area to everyone. I do not think that is fair. Will it solve the problem for now? Maybe. There is always lightning and many things we do not understand. Last year I was up by Kinnikinnick and saw a tree on fire in the middle of fire season. Called in the Forest Service and it became understood it had all the signs of a lightning strike. That tree and the ground around it was like a hole to h*ll, the fire burning stench coming from it and the ground smoldering and smoking. That could have started a h*ll of a fire with just a single wind. My dad was with me and he was shocked...we were scared to be standing there waiting for the Forest Service fire patrol. That was a dry lightning storm by the way, at 7,000 feet, no rain, according to the Forest Service person. Will closure educate people not to start fires? No. Will closures probably get worse before they get better? Unfortunately probably yes. So we better start thinking of some better solutions. I am annoyed like anyone with Forest Service driving up and down the road looking at everyone as though they are fire starters. But, I would take that any day to them closing down the entire forest. I planned hunting that area for a long time, scouted it a lot, and my camping trip was going to be 100% fire free. Neither do I smoke, nor anyone that was going with me. If this happened next year, and instead of them closing the forest, there was a Forest Service feller checking on everyone down the road, I think I would be very happy about that now knowing what it feels like to have the option completely taken away. Would it stop people from hiking in and starting fires in the backcountry? No, but I sure would hope hose doing something like that would be even smarter. Do not take peoples' freedoms away. Make people smarter, not stupider. It is scary how many people do not even know how their food traveled to the grocery store... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted June 30, 2012 http://ih3.redbubble.net/image.10064404.9290/fc,550x550,black.jpg 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lonne Report post Posted June 30, 2012 Yeah, and We need to make sure no one has fire arms because they might hurt someone. It will be interesting to see what kind of extremely restrictive firearms regulations are introduced if Obama gets elected for a 2nd term in office. The way it always goes. First term, be conservative so you get re-elected. Second term, legislate like crazy and leave a legacy because no re-election to worry about... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Willyhunts2 Report post Posted June 30, 2012 The wallow fire was started by hunters? I thought it was started by 2 guys camping or maybe I'm missing something. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues 'n' Sheep Report post Posted June 30, 2012 Whaaa Burger and French Cries??? It certainly is closed for the right reasons...and yellow tape closers should mean CLOSED to all of us... to protect us all from that "one guy" (or gal)... Geez I can't believe this is even a topic... Who in there right mind would wanna kill anything in this HEAT, that isn't 10 feet or less form the ice chest or walk-in right now anyway... Sorry I just had to finally put my 2 cents in... Ridiculous!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZLance Report post Posted June 30, 2012 Coors'n'sleep, go have another one and go back to sleep... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Willyhunts2 Report post Posted June 30, 2012 Ha he is right though. I have a 22 archery spring tag and sucks not being able to hunt but at same time it's good to keep the retards out. I was sitting my bear spot few weekends ago and at 5:30 am I hear people target shooting our cabin burnt down in the dude fire and was rebuilt, don't need some dick head to start another fire Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted June 30, 2012 By shutting it down, they are saying we are all retards. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drcarr Report post Posted July 1, 2012 By shutting it down, they are saying we are all retards. Finally someone understands!!!!!! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drcarr Report post Posted July 1, 2012 Whaaa Burger and French Cries??? It certainly is closed for the right reasons...and yellow tape closers should mean CLOSED to all of us... to protect us all from that "one guy" (or gal)... Geez I can't believe this is even a topic... Who in there right mind would wanna kill anything in this HEAT, that isn't 10 feet or less form the ice chest or walk-in right now anyway... Sorry I just had to finally put my 2 cents in... Ridiculous!!!! you are missing my point which is that the "Nanny State" government is slowly, but surely taking away personal freedoms...this thread began by talking about the government restricting forest access under the guise of it being a necessary fire safety precaution....in another thread the latest USFS Travel Management Plans (TMP’s) are being discussed….is it really necessary for the TMP’s to be so restrictive??...there are numerous other instances of the government eroding freedoms that have nothing to do with Forest access...look at the bigger picture...where do you draw the line???? ....I believe that due diligence is at all times necessary when considering a governments actions....when it comes to Big Government, if you give them an inch, they’ll usually end up taking a mile…I'm not a conspiracy theorist and the erosion of personal freedoms is real...my employment as a state level law enforcement officer for almost 25 years (yes I’m a government employee) has shown me the truth in this matter...at least take a deep breath and think about all the different things that you used to enjoy that are now prohibited by law...it’s sobering as well as saddening….All I’m suggesting is that we stop being so willing to blindly surrender these freedoms… 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muleskinner Report post Posted July 1, 2012 We are still smelling the smoke from the "little bear fire" where I live in Lincoln county, NM. This fire could have been put put when it was 10 acres in size. 2 different agencies were standing by to move on it. The forest service ordered them to leave and let it burn. 40,000 + acres and 254 homes later it is finally done. I evacuated for 3 days from my home. Our forest service is being dictated to by a bunch of idiots and it is swiftly destroying our forests. The management of our forest. Needs to be in the hands of local, county, elected officials. Not a bunch of bureaucrats who don't care if there is a forest. Now we have road closure signs all over the place with the words," for your safety" . Sorry, but I don't need these people to keep me safe or to protect me. I'm perfectly capable of taking care of myself. I am going into the forest whenever I choose. These people need to be reminded of the fact that they work for us...not the other way around. There is an "elitist mentality" about this gov't that makes me sick. We are just a money machine without the intelligence to determine our own course. Just shut up and keep the wheels moving on the machine. I for one am fed up with it! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted July 1, 2012 What does some pencil pushing, Birkenstock wearing, latte drinker in DC know about the western forest? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lonne Report post Posted July 1, 2012 Being out in this heat separates Da Men from Da Boys and puts hair on your chest. If I can handle it and you want to stay home that's your prerogative. By the way if you have not noticed being up at high elevation is actually a few degrees cooler...said with alot of sarcasm. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Willyhunts2 Report post Posted July 1, 2012 They have to have these closures cause people are stupid. Most people are smart enough to know driving down a dirt road to camp that it is to dry for a fire. heck I saw a guy at willow springs a few weeks ago with a fire blazing and it was windy to where I couldn't cast more then 10 yards. We have to pay because of other peoples stupidity. I wish they would keep these areas open and just have more law enforcement around to nail the idiots but that won't happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
