Loss of Bear Hunting Access Due To Extreme Fire Danger

[lonne]

Any good NRA or hunting lawyers out there? I would sure like to exercise my right to hunt and camp without a fire this weekend...to support my family I also do not need a $5000 fine...

 

See map attached. This order is in effect until Aug 31...that covers a large portion of the Fall Non-Permit tag as well as the current Spring Draw tag.

 

OK I'm pretty upset, ok frankly am pissed. I can understand regulations of no fires because of extreme fire danger but disallowing access to the entire forest? I am ... very ticked off...

 

So if you have a Spring bear tag, this has to be one of the best weekends to go bear hunting because of the heat...

 

My cousin who was going bear scouting with me this weekend and drove up before me just called me to tell me he cannot access the area below because a big sign is posted saying it is closed.

 

One place I was scouting since April has already been closed due to a fire and now this area...So effectively all the scouting I have done has gone down the drain...

 

I've been scouting in 22 and planned to go this weekend and this area is completely closed, and I do not see anything about hunting being allowed. I saw on AZGFD website today that some places in Tonto NF were closed including Fossil Creek and Hackberry Mountain area, but nothing mentioned about whether hunting is allowed or if my area in Tonto NF was affected:

http://azgfd.net/art...onditions.shtml

 

The closure order is here:

http://www.fs.usda.g...prdb5375194.pdf

 

Neither of these two items listed allow hunting, in my interpretation:

 

Persons with a Forest Service permit specifically authorizing the otherwise prohibited act or

omission.

Persons engaged in a business, trade, or occupation in the area who are authorized by the US

Forest Service, the State of Arizona, or the County of Gila, its employees, agents, contractors and

subcontractors.

[kidso]

I drew a spring bear tag for unit 22 and will hunt it as planned, unless the Forest Service wants to pay me back for gas, time, travel, and food spent on preparing my ground blind on a water hole over the last two months. Not to mention the cost of my bear tag and new arrows I purchased for my bear hunt. Being a school teacher, this is now the time of year I finally get to go out and hunt my water hole, as opposed to maintaining it. The stroke of a pen should not keep law abiding hunters, especially with current tags, off of public land. The Feds need to get a clue from our AZ state legislature which ALLOWS properly licensed hunters full access to public state trust lands. If the roads I use do not have a locked gate across it, I will take it as open access for licensed hunters to drive on. If it is locked, I will park to respect the vehicle barrier and hike in to my blind on public land, which I do anyways, but it will be a bit more of a hike.

[yumabowhunter]

Good for you and good luck!

[NitroAZ]

We had the same thing happen on the Coronado last spring which effected folks with archery Bear draw permits. I called both F.S. and G&F, basically FS told me so sad, so sorry, fire danger is high and we don't want anyone on the land. G&F fish told me their hands were tied and I was told I could still hunt, but only on state land. The ironic thing is three days after they closed the forest UDA's started a huge fire. luckily for me I tagged out the day before the closure.

I doubt the forest will stay closed until Aug 31, once the rains come they will re-evaluate and hopefully lift the closure.

[tjhunt2]

I thought that a person who had a drawn hunt tag was ok to hunt doing the closure. Maybe I read it wrong. I see the concern they have but most hunters who have drawn just want to get in there and hunt. I agree with kidso. If I had a tag I would continue to hunt the unit but would be carefull where I parked and would not bring attention to what I was doing.

 

Is that wrong? You tell me. Just saying!

 

TJ

[Elkaddict]

Pretty straight forward..It's closed..

[soazarcher]

Pretty straight forward..It's closed..

 

+1

It's closed, and it happens every year.....you guys must be new here.

 

You hunt your bears before they can get the forest closed. Just like every year.....

 

Its the Feds, not AZGFD.

[kidso]

I will abide by the law. I spoke out too soon in anger, as it was my initial reaction. But deep down, I will follow the ruling, even if I don't agree with it, because I purposely do not seek to violate any laws of our land.

[tjhunt2]

I thought that a person who had a drawn hunt tag was ok to hunt doing the closure. Maybe I read it wrong. I see the concern they have but most hunters who have drawn just want to get in there and hunt. I agree with kidso. If I had a tag I would continue to hunt the unit but would be carefull where I parked and would not bring attention to what I was doing.

 

Is that wrong? You tell me. Just saying!

 

TJ

 

Well, I guess I should have read the opening post a little better then I would have understood that they updated from restrictions to closure. There is a difference between restrictions and complete closure. Under restrictions your were still allowed to hunt even though shooting was prohibited. Closure means just that, stay out. I would follow the ruling and hope everyone else does as well.

 

soazarcher.......yes, I'm new here and just got off the boat.

 

TJ

[Tucson John]

I have a place in Unit 1, and I sure wish they would close that also! It is Hot and drier than a popcorn fart up there! It was 94 degrees at my place this week, and thats ~10 degrees hotter than I have ever seen it! There are people on Quads running all over the place and folks running chain saws all day even though there is a red flag fire restriction in place. Then comming back to the valley today in Showlow I see a Fire works stand! What?! Freaking Fireworks?! are these people crazy? I survived the Rodeo and the Walnut fire, but I don't think I can survive the utter lunacy of some of the people who "use" our forests. I'm sorry you can't go get your bear, and I understand you have a lot of time and money invested, but really if we are to have ANY forest left, they need to be closed until we get some rain! They can't regulate stupidity.......so they put this blanket closure in place.........and guess what? those who are most likely to start a fire will still be out there, because they are oblivios to anything but their own little moronic world.

[Coach]

I'm here in Lakeside and it's a virtual parade of campers headed up to the higher country. Little to no rain in most areas. We've been reading mid 90's in the shade the past couple of days and I can't keep grass growing with daily watering.

 

I get wanting to come up to the mountains and cool air, roast some weenies by the campfire, all that fun stuff, but the monsoons haven't started yet despite predictions for rain for the past couple days, we haven't seen a drop yet. One cigarette butt, or too many pine needles in the campfire, and folks are gonna lose their homes - not to mention the habitat loss.

 

Like Tucson John, I've now been through the Rodeo-Chedisky fire, the Bear Wallow fire...If something starts below the rim on the Apache reservation country, my house will be ashes.

 

Just please be safe out there and aware of fire dangers. Obide by the no campfire laws and use propane to cook. Enjoy the mountains, but leave them as you found them, is all I'm asking.

[AZLance]

Its rained twice in the past two weeks, thank God the monsoons are here!

[bonecollector]

Closures suck but they are necessary due to the lack of law abiding fools who want to have a fire in these extreme dry conditions.

[1uglydude]

Any good NRA or hunting lawyers out there? I would sure like to exercise my right to hunt and camp without a fire this weekend...to support my family I also do not need a $5000 fine...

 

 

I happen to be a lawyer, I hunt, and I have a 22 bear tag in my wallet. I sympathize with you, BUT:

 

1) Closed means closed.

 

2) Many of the same areas were closed last year (and most years in the last 10 years)...compared to last year, it stayed open 4 extra days. Next year get a tag in 23, they rarely close that part of the forest.

 

3) No one has hunting "rights"...they're privileges.

 

4) The season has been open since the first week of May. I've had bears on camera since that time, and made it out for four days. It never quite came together, but it was close. Sorry that you weren't able to make it out yet, but if someone had shot a sow the whole thing could have shut down weeks ago. That's the chance you take.

 

5) In fact, some of my close calls were on young sows, if I hadn't missed them by 15-30 minutes, and I had decided to take one, your season would have been over weeks ago...who would you complain to then?

 

6) I likely lost two cameras and a blind in the Sunflower fire, but such losses and safety closures are all part of hunting public land. Public land doesn't mean we have unfettered access. The federal government is the landlord, and although it can be managed under a quasi public trust, that doesn't mean we always get a final say in how it's done. Like you, I don't always agree with what they do, but there is a process set out for it and they stick to it. In theory, we have a voice when they set the forest management plans and other processes open to the public. Often, we don't agree with the final product, but the law is the law. Because the land has a landlord, we only have the privilege of hunting, hiking, camping, etc., on it...we have no right to do anything on land we don't own.

 

Again, I sympathize with you. Take heart in knowing that these closures are usually lifted by mid-July (even though they say it could last into August). We need one or two soaking rains in the area, and it will open up. Your tag is good until July 31. Granted, the sows will probably be bred by then, and the bears will spread out, but you may still get a chance.

[missedagain]

All I can say is I am glad all of their restrictions don't apply to me.