thoughts on new coconino road rules

[couesdiehard]

BML, How many if any forest service personnel did you see out educating people? Also there weren't any markings designating roads as open or closed right?

Lee

[Elkaddict]

I hung some trail cameras last weekend. Drove in on a road that was open, but had 6 or 7 side roads that were all closed. I had to hike in a mile or so on a road that I originally was going to drive on. No big deal. Fresh quad tracks all up and down that road though. I talked to several different guys that were turkey hunting that had no clue that any of the roads were closed or even what the new travel management rules were.

I think if you don't follow one of the hunting forums you wouldn't know about the rule change. There is a flashing sign at Cllints Well but there isn't one on 87 if you're coming up from Payson. There's a ton of country from the strawberry to Clints well that people can get into the forest without seeing a sign. Also if they see the sign it doesn't explain anything. Just says New rules in effect May 1. I haven't seen anything on any local news stations. Like I've said before, Memorial day weekend is going to be something.

On another note, I too have been walking closed roads the last week or so and haven't walked one yet that didn't have vehicle tracks on it.

[120carp]

I hung some trail cameras last weekend. Drove in on a road that was open, but had 6 or 7 side roads that were all closed. I had to hike in a mile or so on a road that I originally was going to drive on. No big deal. Fresh quad tracks all up and down that road though. I talked to several different guys that were turkey hunting that had no clue that any of the roads were closed or even what the new travel management rules were.

I think if you don't follow one of the hunting forums you wouldn't know about the rule change. There is a flashing sign at Cllints Well but there isn't one on 87 if you're coming up from Payson. There's a ton of country from the strawberry to Clints well that people can get into the forest without seeing a sign. Also if they see the sign it doesn't explain anything. Just says New rules in effect May 1. I haven't seen anything on any local news stations. Like I've said before, Memorial day weekend is going to be something.

On another note, I too have been walking closed roads the last week or so and haven't walked one yet that didn't have vehicle tracks on it.

 

 

They have the same kind of blinking sign you talked about off the 180 north of flagstaff.

[ThomC]

Well all I can say this is the result of tooooooooooo dang many people. Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

[joeeden]

Well all I can say this is the result of tooooooooooo dang many people. Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

 

Too many people, ok. What exactly do you mean? I have two kids, so I guess I'm part of the problem. "Too dang many people" I'd love to hear your solution.

[BML]

Lee,

 

 

There wasn't a single FS vehicle anywhere we went. Not surprising though. They don't have the manpower to enforce the new TMR. I suppose if they come across folks on closed roads they may or may not issue citations but no way in heck are they devoting man hours strictly to enforcing this new law. Also none of the closed roads were marked closed, but that's part of the TMR. They have already said they aren't going to mark them closed.

 

I'm not against the new TMR but without educating the public there's just no way possible it will be an effective plan.

[Elkaddict]

I would like to think I will be part of the solution, if by solution you mean complying with the new rules. I would expect more from the forest service like marking roads closed, and since they spent last summer marking every road in the forest(usable or not!) they have all the posts in the ground already. How hard would it be for them to put a closed sticker on them!

I was walking a closed road this morning and there was a camp on it, 2 familys,kids,dogs, etc. I waved and went on my way,what would you do?

[Mathews]

Its funny because looking at some of the camping spots 30 ft off the main roads are on shear cliffs or 100 ft off the edge of shear cliffs.. How do they expect everyone to know about the closures? With the new online draw how many more people applied for tags that have never set foot in the country they plan to hunt.. Like someone said, if you're not on a forum like this good luck finding out the hard way..

[tjhunt2]

Well all I can say this is the result of tooooooooooo dang many people. Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

 

ThomC, yes you are right that there are to many people but that is just the way of life right now. Not sure what you actually mean when you say are you part of the problem or part of the solution. What is your answer to the solution? If we are a problem then what do you think our problem is? Here's what I think. The national forest are suppose to belong to us all but I know there has to be laws to abide by. Most of the forest service people I have talked to say they are only following orders. I agree. It's the higher up in the government that's making these rules that our local forest employees have to follow. If a road is closed then it needs to be posted period.

This is why we must change our leadership this next election. Please go vote.

 

TJ

[couesdiehard]

Lee,

 

 

There wasn't a single FS vehicle anywhere we went. Not surprising though. They don't have the manpower to enforce the new TMR. I suppose if they come across folks on closed roads they may or may not issue citations but no way in heck are they devoting man hours strictly to enforcing this new law. Also none of the closed roads were marked closed, but that's part of the TMR. They have already said they aren't going to mark them closed.

 

I'm not against the new TMR but without educating the public there's just no way possible it will be an effective plan.

 

BML,

Thanks for the info. That's about what I figured. Sounds like some potential problems for my upcoming early archery bull hunt. I don't disagree with closing many of the roads either but I think they went too far with the closures and then to make no effort to post closed roads and have no manpower to enforce the closures stinks to high heaven. I fully expect I may be the only one following the TMR in the area I plan to hunt which is just going to make my hunt more challenging. I don't go camping on Memorial Day weekend but I am tempted to drive up for a day and check out the circus. Thanks again BML.

Lee

[ready2hunt]

Yep they need some serious education to take place. I am planning on going up and putting out some cameras and scout in a couple of weeks for my Oct. rifle hunt and had no idea this had happened. (And I would consider myself someone who makes an effort to stay informed)

 

Thanks for all the info shared everyone.

 

Every animal I have ever killed has been through hiking off the beaten path but my father and grandfather don't really have that option anymore. I do not agree with the extent that this was done.

 

 

Now I am younger than most I admit it but isn't this how they turned Units 12ab and 13ab into trophy hunts under their "Alternative Managment Guidelines?" Obviously those hunts focus deer but didn't they slowly limit the liberty hunters had within those units with access and tags?? Just an innocent question.

[BML]

 

 

BML,

Thanks for the info. That's about what I figured. Sounds like some potential problems for my upcoming early archery bull hunt. I don't disagree with closing many of the roads either but I think they went too far with the closures and then to make no effort to post closed roads and have no manpower to enforce the closures stinks to high heaven. I fully expect I may be the only one following the TMR in the area I plan to hunt which is just going to make my hunt more challenging. I don't go camping on Memorial Day weekend but I am tempted to drive up for a day and check out the circus. Thanks again BML.

Lee

 

No problem Lee.

 

There is one big scenario that I expect will be the biggest problem to this rule. At first, there will be many people to will abide by the rules and at least make their best attempt at following the new rules. Unfortunately, most will not. What will happen is all the folks following the new rules will get sick and tired of people driving by them on closed roads with zero punishment. The good folks will then simply say "screw it" and then very few will be following the new laws. The only way I see to enforce this 100% is to have every single closed road marked as closed. Then it needs to be patrolled on a regular basis. I doubt the FS will ever have the manpower to do either, though.

[125coues]

I have been up in unit 8 over the past weekends and have seen that the forest service have been going around letting people know they are in none camping areas and also that some were camped to far off the road and were asked to move there trailer to 30 ft from the road.they are also going around and putting road closed stickers on roads that are closed.I saw alot of these on the east side(Mcdougals Flats ) of the unit.They are running around the unit on 4wheelers . Just thought I would post this so everyone hunting up there this elk season should get a map.

[Elkaddict]

I have been up in unit 8 over the past weekends and have seen that the forest service have been going around letting people know they are in none camping areas and also that some were camped to far off the road and were asked to move there trailer to 30 ft from the road.they are also going around and putting road closed stickers on roads that are closed.I saw alot of these on the east side(Mcdougals Flats ) of the unit.They are running around the unit on 4wheelers . Just thought I would post this so everyone hunting up there this elk season should get a map.

Glad to hear they're posting the roads, I think that is step in the right direction.

[sagebrush]

People have mentioned the loss of access for us seniors, but what about our youth? Pretty hard to get youngsters excited about the outdoors when they must hike long distances. One of the biggest challenges to keeping our outdoor heritage alive is recruitment and retention. Of course, if there is an unseen agenda of a few misguided senior managers in the Forest Service, maybe thats exactly what they want.