Most Wallow fire closures are OPEN!!

[Alpinebullwinkle]

"Use the Quads God Gave You!"

 

That sounds like a statement "stupid me" would have said when I was in my 20's. I get as frustrated as many of you hunters when I make a great effort walking and then find another hunter that drove in on a quad from an unknown access. Having acknowledged that I'll give you another (factual) side of the issue. My family has enjoyed driving the logging roads either hunting, fishing or simply wildlife viewing for over 40 years. As Bill Quimby stated each forest map update shows less and less roads out there. It is part of the USFS devious strategy to reduce most access to our National Forests and in many peoples opinion to eventually keep us all out of the forest. Even before the devastating Wallow Fire our Forest Service had mysteriously closed about 50% of these roads within the last 10 years. In their Travel Management public meetings they shared new maps suggesting that 90% roughly of the roads in unit #27 would be closed if they get their way. Road closures are supposed to require public input first but that has only happened in just a few cases. When challenged the USFS has stated these were "temporary roads constructed for logging purposes" in the 1960's and 1970's. Like I said we were "temporarily allowed" to travel these roads for over 40 years and now deprived the privilege because of an agenda that is not aligned with probably 90% of the public. What I have noticed is these closures have resulted in many of the public freelancing and making their own roads. This is wrong.....we all know....but the root cause is because of the USFS closures, which they also should be held accountable for. Many of these closures are well graveled roads with NO JUSTIFICATION for closure. The USFS is also proposing closing many roads on the perrifery of the Bear Wallow Wilderness (one road about 10 miles in length). What this would accomplish is making the BWW about 40% larger in wilderness area without following proper proceedures established. Sound devious by them? It is!!! And factual if you look at their Travel Management map proposals.

 

Yes it very easy and perhaps narrow minded to say "use your quads God gave you". Fact of the matter is after all these roads that have already been closed and all the additional ones the USFS has on their agenda to close......that 90% of the public will be kept out of the forest or deprived of the privileges they had a few years ago. Excluded from walking access (or horseback) will be the aged, young kids, some women and the handicapped. Sounds very discriminatory doesn't it? That's because what they are doing IS discriminatory....... and they should be ashamed of themselves.

[Mthomas]

It's been 10 years since I had a elk tag in unit 1. It was the last time I had a tag period. I grew up in the white mountains and can't wait to get up there and start scouting. I'm hoping the fire didn't mess it up to bad. We'll probably go up and get started scouting on the 4th of July and every weekend till the hunt.

[tjhunt2]

I don't understand some of the posters mentality in here, they are not saying you can't be in the woods, they are saying you can't drive your truck or ATV on a road. They did the same thing in 3c after the fire. Don't be lazy, park your vehicle and walk.

 

How old are you by the way?

 

TJ

[tjhunt2]

I don't understand some of the posters mentality in here, they are not saying you can't be in the woods, they are saying you can't drive your truck or ATV on a road. They did the same thing in 3c after the fire. Don't be lazy, park your vehicle and walk.

 

How old are you by the way?

 

TJ

 

Just looked up your profile, 26yrs old. Enough said young man!

 

TJ

[Alpinebullwinkle]

Unfortunately they have to tell us what to do, because if they leave it up to us to make decisions and police ourselves, we do a horrible job of it. That's how the forest got burnt down in the first place remember? They didn't issue a fire ban, and some idiot had a fire and left it unattended. Make no mistake about it, some people are stupid. That's the reason we have to have rules. If they left it up to us there would eventually be roads criss crossing everywhere, take a trip out to any popular quad/dirt biking riding spot near town and you'll see why they have to make these rules and enforce them. I for one don't want our forests looking like that. Especially now that we've lost so much forest in the last couple fires. Another issue is lazy hunters, they see a point they want to glass from, and instead of walking over there, they drive the ranger over. Do this a few times and it looks like a road, and everyone drives it.Wood cutters drive all over the dang place too. It has got to stop somewhere, and I for one applaud them closing these roads.

[Alpinebullwinkle]

What makes you so certain the USFS is "more qualified to tell us what to do" ? After all .....it was their ill-advised decision to allow open camp fires which ended up with two irresponsible campers being partially responsible (along with the USFS) for burning down over half of units #27 & 1 last year!

[Lux]

While I'm not an expert on the subject, I think were need to also take into consideration the total opposition to forestry brought on by the extreme enviromentalists and their deep pocketed lobbiests over the past 20 yrs and put some of the blame on them. All we have to do is look along the western border of units 1 and 27 to see how forestry can protect a forest. I definitely agree that some of the blame goes to the USFS and to the irresponsible campers, I just think there are more parties that should be held accountable.

[Pine Donkey]

1335400189[/url]' post='307192']

1335399996[/url]' post='307191']

1335192673[/url]' post='306761']

I don't understand some of the posters mentality in here, they are not saying you can't be in the woods, they are saying you can't drive your truck or ATV on a road. They did the same thing in 3c after the fire. Don't be lazy, park your vehicle and walk.

 

How old are you by the way?

 

TJ

 

Just looked up your profile, 26yrs old. Enough said young man!

 

TJ

 

+1

[elkrack]

"Use the Quads God Gave You!"

 

That sounds like a statement "stupid me" would have said when I was in my 20's. I get as frustrated as many of you hunters when I make a great effort walking and then find another hunter that drove in on a quad from an unknown access. Having acknowledged that I'll give you another (factual) side of the issue. My family has enjoyed driving the logging roads either hunting, fishing or simply wildlife viewing for over 40 years. As Bill Quimby stated each forest map update shows less and less roads out there. It is part of the USFS devious strategy to reduce most access to our National Forests and in many peoples opinion to eventually keep us all out of the forest. Even before the devastating Wallow Fire our Forest Service had mysteriously closed about 50% of these roads within the last 10 years. In their Travel Management public meetings they shared new maps suggesting that 90% roughly of the roads in unit #27 would be closed if they get their way. Road closures are supposed to require public input first but that has only happened in just a few cases. When challenged the USFS has stated these were "temporary roads constructed for logging purposes" in the 1960's and 1970's. Like I said we were "temporarily allowed" to travel these roads for over 40 years and now deprived the privilege because of an agenda that is not aligned with probably 90% of the public. What I have noticed is these closures have resulted in many of the public freelancing and making their own roads. This is wrong.....we all know....but the root cause is because of the USFS closures, which they also should be held accountable for. Many of these closures are well graveled roads with NO JUSTIFICATION for closure. The USFS is also proposing closing many roads on the perrifery of the Bear Wallow Wilderness (one road about 10 miles in length). What this would accomplish is making the BWW about 40% larger in wilderness area without following proper proceedures established. Sound devious by them? It is!!! And factual if you look at their Travel Management map proposals.

 

Yes it very easy and perhaps narrow minded to say "use your quads God gave you". Fact of the matter is after all these roads that have already been closed and all the additional ones the USFS has on their agenda to close......that 90% of the public will be kept out of the forest or deprived of the privileges they had a few years ago. Excluded from walking access (or horseback) will be the aged, young kids, some women and the handicapped. Sounds very discriminatory doesn't it? That's because what they are doing IS discriminatory....... and they should be ashamed of themselves.

 

Doesn't sound discriminatory at all and the FACT of the matter is there are a LOT of us that would prefer to never hear an ATV again, I'll walk thank you! If you want to sight see, hunt, or what ever on an ATV do so where the roads are open and have fun. The fact that you can't drive over every square inch of the forest is a good thing.

[billrquimby]

My age (76) and health (congestive heart failure, atrial fibrillation managed by a pacemaker, and COPD) preclude my walking without frequent stops to rest. I don't have an ATV, and my Chevy truck is very quiet. I don't want to drive over every square inch of forest, but please don't close roads that I've used for 20, 30 and 40 years. Closing roads definitely discriminates against me and others like me.

 

Bill Quimby

[tjhunt2]

My age (76) and health (congestive heart failure, atrial fibrillation managed by a pacemaker, and COPD) preclude my walking without frequent stops to rest. I don't have an ATV, and my Chevy truck is very quiet. I don't want to drive over every square inch of forest, but please don't close roads that I've used for 20, 30 and 40 years. Closing roads definitely discriminates against me and others like me.

 

Bill Quimby

 

I'm with ya Bill.

 

TJ

[Alpinebullwinkle]

Amen Bill. I am also with you. Even though I have two ATV's I only use them where possible to retrieve game. Like I said I hate to bump into other hunters riding ATV's. That is not the issue though in my mind. The issue is closing 90% of the roads so most of us do not have truck access to hunt, fish, or wildlife view the areas we have had access to for 40 years. These changes will basically make the whole national forest "wilderness designation" which circumvents the long standing processes established and ultimately becomes very discriminatory! A very devious strategy by USFS and extemists that apparently some of us hunters "without vision" have not yet recognized. I'm guessing as you get older your vision on this issue will become clearer!!

[buffhunter]

I am for closing some of the access but not as much as they are doing. But don't you think the drastic measures taken as of late are mostly from people abusing our national forest?? By tearing the roads up and driving cross country? I do use a utv and notice that they tear the roads up a heck of a lot more then if I was just driving my 4x4.

[Alpinebullwinkle]

I agree we need to have some new rules to protect the forest from increasing ATV use. Having said that circumstances are much different in the forest than the damage most of us all acknowledge in the desert. Like previously stated some of the freelancing or most all IMHO in the mountains is a result of the USFS closing off access to areas we have traveled for 40 years in our vehicles and sometimes 20 years in our ATV's. I like to consider root causes in addition to the obvious that is in front of all our faces!

[Alpinebullwinkle]

Stated differently we do have a legitimate travel management issue with ATV's to address. But it is very "wormy" of the USFS to use this issue and now the devastating Wallow Fire to help achieve their unwritten agenda of closing off most of our national forest to the public......areas we have had access to for +40 years!!