What do you think about the BP system?

[Gr8 White Jr]

Could be wrong but squaring everyones points wont increase anyones odds.

 

 

Squaring bonus points WILL in fact change odds in a big way. For example, say you have two applicants, one with 5 points and one with 10 points. The applicant with 10 points has twice as many points as the applicant with 5 points. Now square both of their points. The applicant with 10 points will now have 100 points and the applicant with 5 points will now have 25 points. So now its 25 to 100 instead of 5 to 10. He now has 4 times more points instead of only double the points. This system would give the applicants with higher bonus points a significant advantage over those with less.

 

-Tracy

[AZBUCKEYE]

I've been in Arizona since the mid-60s. We got 4 antelope tags on one app as a group in 19A in 1982. Finally got my second antelope tag this year. I'm not complaining as I did not hunt for most of the 1990s. But considering we have approximately 700 antelope tags and 10,000 or more applicants each year, it is easy to see some are going to get left out. I think we should make successful applicants wait before they can apply again. But what is a reasonable number of years to wait: 3 years? 5 years? More?

I am all for waiting 3 to 5 years after drawing a tag. I feel they need to make sure everyone at least gets the opportunity

[hawkeye]

Where I grew up in eastern Canada, drawing a moose tag was a big deal (and still is). At the time if you drew a moose tag, you had to sit out the next 3 years. It seemed to work OK.

It used to be like that for elk here in Arizona. The problem with that was that the AZGFD couldn't find a way to get their application fees if you couldn't put in for 3 years. It is all about money, not opportunity.

 

By the way, I am 58 years old, and lived in Arizona my whole life. I have never drawn an antelope tag, and have so many useless bonus points, I would choke on them if I tried to eat them

[Millhouse]

I seem to be in the minority here, but I don't mind the current system. I like the fact that every year I have a chance at getting drawn. I like the fact that if I do my homework, I can put in for hunts and put the odds (however small) in my favor.

 

Seems like there is a lot of opportunity to get drawn for most things (elk, deer, javelina, turkey, etc). The others are just a waiting game on supply vs. demand.

[2 Full Curls]

Guys thank you for the comments and solid discussion. This is what I love about this forum.

 

To address the comment earlier about "pick a different unit"... My dad has done just that (over the years he has put in for "lesser" units with supposed better chances at getting drawn but with no luck. And to be honest, when you wait that long he has no desire to settle for anything less than a tag from one of the premier units.

 

Gr8 White Jr gave a nice example of how squaring the bonus points would dramatically increase draw odds from year to year. I love always having a chance to draw but I certainly wish the system helped those in waiting.

 

I certainly believe our bp system bests those of other states, but...

 

I guarantee if you didn't cap the bonus points and squared them, then Hawkeye and TLH's dad would have been drawn for antelope by now.

[Snapshot]

A preference point system like Colorado. When you get drawn, you have to go to the back of the line and start over.

[Snapshot]

A waiting period system for applicants would not raise the draw odds very much.

 

Example:

 

If 1000 people apply for 100 permits = 10% draw odds

 

Take 100 people out of that draw with 900 people applying for 100 permits the next year = 11.1% draw odds

 

Variables not included.

[Red Rabbit]

A preference point system like Colorado. When you get drawn, you have to go to the back of the line and start over.

Can one tell their 10 year old son that he will have to wait 23 years to hunt antelope?

A preference system will not be good for recruitment or retention, imo.

[Snapshot]

A preference point system like Colorado. When you get drawn, you have to go to the back of the line and start over.

Can one tell their 10 year old son that he will have to wait 23 years to hunt antelope?

A preference system will not be good for recruitment or retention, imo.

 

 

Does anyone want to watch their 75 year old father go to the grave without ever drawing a tag? That 75 year old guy stayed retained as a hunter in the draw for all those years, and he didn't get a tag? What is the difference between him and a ten year old not getting one?

 

If the 10 year old only had to wait 23 years, at least he/she would be 33 when they got one! Just sayin....

[Snapshot]

In all fairness, there will never be a draw system that everyone would be happy with. As someone stated, there is way more demand than supply. The current system is great for all the people that have enough luck on their side, to get drawn on a fairly regular basis. It's a tougher pill to swallow for those of us that don't have a lucky charm.

 

I can't complain about not getting drawn for antelope. I got drawn for a unit 10 archery antelope permit back in 1998 with only 5 points I think. Due to unexpected business scheduling, I was unable to make the hunt. I felt bad, because that tag went unused, and I am sure somebody else would have been very happy to have it.

[Oak]

A preference point system like Colorado. When you get drawn, you have to go to the back of the line and start over.

Can one tell their 10 year old son that he will have to wait 23 years to hunt antelope?

A preference system will not be good for recruitment or retention, imo.

 

 

Does anyone want to watch their 75 year old father go to the grave without ever drawing a tag? That 75 year old guy stayed retained as a hunter in the draw for all those years, and he didn't get a tag? What is the difference between him and a ten year old not getting one?

 

If the 10 year old only had to wait 23 years, at least he/she would be 33 when they got one! Just sayin....

Careful what you wish for. Having operated under Colorado's system my entire life, I would trade you for AZ's in a heartbeat. A person starting to build points right now would NEVER draw one of our premium elk tags in their lifetime, resident or non-resident.

 

It is very easy to criticize draw systems when they do not produce the results we want. Fact is, the demand for premium hunting opportunities far exceeds the supply, and a subset of draw participants will always feel slighted. I believe that New Mexico and Idaho have the best points systems, and Colorado has the worst.

[SunDevil]

they need to implement a predator bounty system to increase the supply of big game. specifically antelope and deer.

[hawkeye]

A preference point system like Colorado. When you get drawn, you have to go to the back of the line and start over.

Can one tell their 10 year old son that he will have to wait 23 years to hunt antelope?

A preference system will not be good for recruitment or retention, imo.

I agree, but let me tell you a story. My son is well grown now, but I remember back when he was 10 years old and he and I were very excited about his first deer hunt. He excitedly went through his hunter safety course and just couldn't wait. Well that 10 year old was 15 when he drew his first deer tag. I am talking about just a 24a tag. That young man was in high school when he finally got drawn. They didn't have the youth hunts back then, so I guess they have addressed that problem pretty well.

At my age I have given up on the AZGFD, but I am glad to see people still pationate about change. I still put in, but I have found that other states are a lot better at hunting opportunities so I will keep putting in for my Arizona tags, but I will start hunting other states more frequently.

[Snapshot]

A preference point system like Colorado. When you get drawn, you have to go to the back of the line and start over.

Can one tell their 10 year old son that he will have to wait 23 years to hunt antelope?

A preference system will not be good for recruitment or retention, imo.

 

 

Does anyone want to watch their 75 year old father go to the grave without ever drawing a tag? That 75 year old guy stayed retained as a hunter in the draw for all those years, and he didn't get a tag? What is the difference between him and a ten year old not getting one?

 

If the 10 year old only had to wait 23 years, at least he/she would be 33 when they got one! Just sayin....

Careful what you wish for. Having operated under Colorado's system my entire life, I would trade you for AZ's in a heartbeat. A person starting to build points right now would NEVER draw one of our premium elk tags in their lifetime, resident or non-resident.

 

It is very easy to criticize draw systems when they do not produce the results we want. Fact is, the demand for premium hunting opportunities far exceeds the supply, and a subset of draw participants will always feel slighted. I believe that New Mexico and Idaho have the best points systems, and Colorado has the worst.

 

Thats true. But Colorado has only a handful of super premium units? A person can still get a decent unit with a handful of points. (I think) I have not applied there in awhile.

 

A person can buy a good landowner tag from one of the tag pimps

[coues hunter]

Could be wrong but squaring everyones points wont increase anyones odds.

 

 

Squaring bonus points WILL in fact change odds in a big way. For example, say you have two applicants, one with 5 points and one with 10 points. The applicant with 10 points has twice as many points as the applicant with 5 points. Now square both of their points. The applicant with 10 points will now have 100 points and the applicant with 5 points will now have 25 points. So now its 25 to 100 instead of 5 to 10. He now has 4 times more points instead of only double the points. This system would give the applicants with higher bonus points a significant advantage over those with less.

 

-Tracy

I think what you're forgeting is the fact that your total number of points means nothing at all in Arizonas system. Rather it is your point total in comparison to all other applicants. You can square your points all you want but the "order" will stay the same. Those with more points than you will still have more points then you and those with less will still have less.