What do you think about the BP system?

[2 Full Curls]

So its that time of year when my Dad and I go into a mild depression... again not drawn.

 

My Dad has now been waiting 38 years to draw an antelope tag. He has never missed a draw. I have only 16 points, so my frustration really is for my pops.

 

With this said, I would like to see AZ adopt a BP system like that of Nevada's, where they essentially square the amount of bonus points you have. This dramatically increases your chances of getting drawn from year to year (especially in comparison to Arizona's draw system).

 

If you have ever looked at Nevada's statistics you will see that fewer (I say this relative to AZ) applicants reach max bonus points on Antelope and Sheep. In fact there are units in Nevada where you are almost guaranteed a Sheep tag (as a resident) within the first 10-12 years.

 

I would like to see a system that puts more emphasis on waiting another year to hunt.

 

It has never set well with me that guys who have been residents of this state for 30-40-50+ years (I know some of each) have not drawn either a goat tag or a sheep tag. I know that the luck of the draw is the luck of the draw (and my family has had luck with other species) but I believe changing the BP system would help avoid this from happening.

 

Congratulations to all who drew tags! Best of luck in scouting and on your hunts.

[jmwarren65]

I've been in Arizona since the mid-60s. We got 4 antelope tags on one app as a group in 19A in 1982. Finally got my second antelope tag this year. I'm not complaining as I did not hunt for most of the 1990s. But considering we have approximately 700 antelope tags and 10,000 or more applicants each year, it is easy to see some are going to get left out. I think we should make successful applicants wait before they can apply again. But what is a reasonable number of years to wait: 3 years? 5 years? More?

[coues hunter]

Could be wrong but squaring everyones points wont increase anyones odds. Now, I'm not familiar with Nevadas draw system. But I do understand Arizonas and to me the most rediculous thing is that only 20% of the total tags are issued in the first phase. What if that was doubled to 40%. Then required point totals would be cut in half. Rifle goat tags with about 12 points, archery with 6-9 and archery elk with 4-7! Would be a lot of happy Arizona residents out there.

I know azgfd needs to make money. I also know our current system is good at doing this because it was designed for a high possibility to draw tags in the lottery(i.e. in the second phase where points mean NOTHING). But, it is at the expense of the unlucky residents. We literally toss 70% of our tags into the air every year and let the wind determine who the tag holders will be.

[Redman]

It can be very frustrating.... what units does your dad put in for? After reviewing the odds it seems there is only a marginal improvement of drawing between 12-19 points and in some units there are virtually no better odds of drawing with 20 points vs 10 (unit 34B)... I maybe reading the odds incorrectly. Either way even with max bonus points the odds are nothing to get too excited about, take 17A there is a 4% chance of drawing with 20 points... that means there is a 96% chance of not drawing...

 

Never looked at Nevada's system...

 

 

 

There is more demand than supply.

[muskrat]

Where I grew up in eastern Canada, drawing a moose tag was a big deal (and still is). At the time if you drew a moose tag, you had to sit out the next 3 years. It seemed to work OK.

[Heat]

Pick a different unit!

[Becker]

I tend to agree the bonus system is a little flawed here in AZ. This is for elk but I put in for some rather easy to draw tags. I have 5 points, not a lot I know, but still 5. Some friends of mine also put in for the same hunts. They have drawn the tag four years in a row with two applicants same app and I can't draw the tag!!! Another group of guys have had the tags multiple times in the last couple years, not consecutive but every other year.

 

I have not payed much attention to the draw odds and all those statistics, but is the 20% for max bonus holders through out the state or unit specific? That could make a difference there if it is state wide changing it to 20% of tags per that unit??? Don't beat me up on this as I am not all that into the stats game and don't pay much attention I just go with the luck of the draw approach.

[Red Rabbit]

I have not payed much attention to the draw odds and all those statistics, but is the 20% for max bonus holders through out the state or unit specific? That could make a difference there if it is state wide changing it to 20% of tags per that unit???

Deven, the 20% pass and 10% NR cap are by individual hunt number, except for sheep.

[firstcoueswas80]

There's definitely something wrong when people with 25-30 points cant draw a ANTELOPE tag, yet someone draws one on their first time applying.... Its not sheep were talking about!

 

The sad thing is there's no such thing as a quick fix, or even a fix in general where everyone/most people are happy.

 

I do tend to think that if someone draws a premium or heavily sought after tag they should be forced sit out of the premium draw for a few years, but that raises the question, how long is long enough?

[SunDevil]

we all need to remember something, they are not bonus points they are bogus points.

 

you have to sit out in UT after you draw. I think it is 2 years. Also in UT you could only put in for one species. They changed that awhile ago but for the longest time you had to decide do I want to put in for antelope, or premium elk or premium mule deer. You could not do all 3 but like I said that has all changed now.

[gotcoues]

Square the bonus points, sit out one or maybe two years for bull elk and goat after you draw one and change to top 30% for top bps. Its simple and fair and I bet ANYONE who has waited endlessly for theses tags would agree, plus many of the "lucky guys" would too.

[Red Rabbit]

Save you some time; dead horses don't kick

http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13008&st=0&p=144034&hl="bonus%20point%20system"&fromsearch=1entry144034

[azgutpile]

If you take 17A as an example,the draw success rate is 4.5% @ 20 bps, 2.3% @ 10 bps and .2% @ 0 bps. What this says is that having max bonus points does very little unless you apply to a unit with at least 5 tags available.

 

For an example, take 6A with had 5 tags last year: 100% @ 19 bps, 4% @ 18 bps, 2.3% @ 10 bps and .2% @ 0 bps.

 

The only change that I would be in regards to the loyalty point. I feel you should receive a poiint if you successfully apply for a tag 5 out of the previous 6 years. This would allow you to make one mistake without loosing your loyalty point.

[aztrophytakers]

I think with the high demand on some of the top hunts like Strip deer, early rifle elk, Antelope, ect, that they should be treated like Sheep. Once drawn your out for 5 years, if you kill your done for life. Again, ONLY the top hunts by draw statistics. That would be as close to fair as we could get.

[TLH]

Our system is the best system out there. Everyone has a shot with this system. This is my opinion only for what it is worth. By the way--my dad hasn't been drawn for antelope ever and he is 77 years old-----