bonuspointjohn Report post Posted April 4, 2012 There is news today about a meeting that Don Martin attended whereby the lands north of the Colorado river will be changed to a new designation. Currently sportsmen enjoy a lot of access to the Kaibab as well as the Strip lands. The proposal by the Grand Canyon Trust, which is comprised of several groups that are decidedly against sportsmen, have their documentation in place and will be presented. I am not sure if you will be able to read the attachment, but the overall thrust has been for years to turn that land eventually into a national park. There is also mention of the land for wolves, bears and lions. The future of the Kaibab will be in jeopardy if this is changed by President Obama. The efforts of all are needed to make certain that the change in designation does NOT go into effect. MUSUMR3339.pdf... I am not sure if it can be found through this method, but the document is a disaster for sportsmen. BPJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
runningbird Report post Posted April 4, 2012 Thanks for the heads up John! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkaholic Report post Posted April 5, 2012 it's not like its just arizona - though we indeed need to be aware of this disasterous issue .if ya go back they have been eyeing the kaibab for wolves since 04. http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/201203/create-national-monuments-107.aspx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coueshunter Report post Posted April 5, 2012 this is a big issue that we all need to email, call our representatives about. this foothold if passed will begin the end of hunting on the kaibab.......we need action just like we did with hb2072.......allen...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
40-year-AZ-hunter Report post Posted April 5, 2012 this is a big issue that we all need to email, call our representatives about. this foothold if passed will begin the end of hunting on the kaibab.......we need action just like we did with hb2072.......allen...... Allen, The trouble is, our representatives have NOTHING to say about whether this happens or not. It is solely up to the President. The President can declare areas to be National Monuments. In an ironic way, this is more likely to happen if Obama is defeated in November. He then will feel no repercussions from controversial actions. That is exactly how we got many of the monuments in Arizona right at the end of President Clintons second term. His secretary of the interior, Bruce Babbitt was instrumental in gettting Clinton to declare the Grand Canyon Parashant (strip), Ironwood, etc as well as some in other states right at the end of his term. It was even litigated in the courts and found that he did indeed have the authority. Prior to the designation on the strip, Babbitt held public meetings in AZ about the idea. I went to one in Flagstaff in 2000. There was considerable opposition to the idea. When the designation came out, it included an even bigger area than had been discussed in the meeting. They just went for broke. While it takes Congressional action to designate Wilderness or National Parks, it only takes the President's signature to designate National Monuments. The law that gave him the authority was originally believed to be for small areas of exceptionally unique characteristics. The nature mystics have found that liberal Presidents can us it to designate ever bigger "regular" areas and put them under the more severe management that goes along with the designation. Bruce Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkaholic Report post Posted April 5, 2012 ] hey its our infightin - it's because of 2072 - we just can't work together time for my chest waders,!! we must contact our senators but our president is unperdictable ! we can not stop the president on this issue but we can continue to stop a deadly cancer from spreading . azsfw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KGAINES Report post Posted April 5, 2012 Could a senator or representative put a bill forward that could take that process away from the president? It is getting worse every year that a minority group that live in Washington take stuff away from us and give to themselves, republicans, democrats, independents, heck every one of them are money hungry bastards that take from the people and give nothing in return. We have to vote for the lesser evil every election, never the best or most qualified. The people vote no longer matters, and even when it does the majority buys into the bullcrap about what they can get for free. Sorry if I am off subject, but it pisses me off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krp Report post Posted April 5, 2012 We are taking significant federal hits, why because we lost the election to Obama, we allowed lobbyists to manipulate legislation removing our voting voice and constituency. We've lost the border and Rob Krentz, we enact 1070 and the feds fight 'us'. The feds, ATF, run guns to the cartels in a 2A restriction attempt and we lose Agent Terry. EPA throttles our economy and employment. Religious freedoms are for only NON'Christians. TSA gropes grandma and baby Tim at the airport. We have to win this election and hope Obama is distracted, we gave our voice away. azsfw is trying to Obama us, I'm keeping my voice this time. Kent 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ringer Report post Posted April 5, 2012 Anytime BPJ and Don Martin start ringing the alarm bell you can bet it is another diversion attempt. I call BS on this issue and it is coming straight from AZSFW to their plants to ring the alarm. The hippies, the wolves, the democrats. None of them are as big a threat to our hunting future as AZSFW and the Hamberlin types. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rabbit Report post Posted April 5, 2012 Ringer, I doubt this is a diversion. There have been plans to introduce the wolf to the Mogollon Rim, San Francisco Peaks and North rim for a while. See Gary's post. As he posted on MM, TAH, Don Martin will be happy to send anyone a copy of the proposal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snapshot Report post Posted April 5, 2012 IMO. Obama has the mindset of a Dictator. His communistic and socialistic ideals are chipping away at the cornerstone of our personal rights and freedoms. If re-elected, his next four years in office will bring an onslaught of dubious laws and change, as he tries to inflict his will and personal agenda by keeping his bootheel on the necks of all Americans.He has nothing to lose if re-elected. He will attack our guns. If he can not do so directly, he will do it collaterally. What better way to strike a blow at sportsman(Gun owners), than to transform one of the most highly coveted mule deer hunting areas in the west, into a worthless national monumnent? Another point to consider? Govenor Brewer and Obama don't like each other very much. Even if Brewer's office presented sound fact and data to oppose a national monument, what better way for Obama to be a thorn in Brewers backside? Obama plays politics and has no common sense. An intelligent and logical President would weigh the pro's and con's of signing such a deal. Obama is not an intelligent and logical President. Obama cares little for the financial stability of this country, or the mllions of dollars that are generated by hunters, to hunt north of the Grand Canyon. His schemes and actions play right into the hands of the liberals. The very type of people who are behind the actions of the Grand Canyon Trust. I vote Republican. I am not a believer in Romney. But I will always choose the lesser of two evils. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Don Martin Report post Posted April 5, 2012 IMO. Obama has the mindset of a Dictator. His communistic and socialistic ideals are chipping away at the cornerstone of our personal rights and freedoms. If re-elected, his next four years in office will bring an onslaught of dubious laws and change, as he tries to inflict his will and personal agenda by keeping his bootheel on the necks of all Americans.He has nothing to lose if re-elected. He will attack our guns. If he can not do so directly, he will do it collaterally. What better way to strike a blow at sportsman(Gun owners), than to transform one of the most highly coveted mule deer hunting areas in the west, into a worthless national monumnent? Another point to consider? Govenor Brewer and Obama don't like each other very much. Even if Brewer's office presented sound fact and data to oppose a national monument, what better way for Obama to be a thorn in Brewers backside? Obama plays politics and has no common sense. An intelligent and logical President would weigh the pro's and con's of signing such a deal. Obama is not an intelligent and logical President. Obama cares little for the financial stability of this country, or the mllions of dollars that are generated by hunters, to hunt north of the Grand Canyon. His schemes and actions play right into the hands of the liberals. The very type of people who are behind the actions of the Grand Canyon Trust. I vote Republican. I am not a believer in Romney. But I will always choose the lesser of two evils. This post is for RINGER! Diversion? You got to be kidding! Get from behind that anonymous keyboard and give me your name and e-mail and I'll gladly send you a copy of the proposal! My personal e-mail is awoguide@citlink.net what is yours? Its a huge file, 7.9 mg, but I'll sure as heck be glad to share with anyone who wants to read it! Not sure what others in the outdoors community are doing about this, but I'm meeting with Mohave County Board of Supervisor Gary Watson, who is strong supporter of sportsmen and the ranching community, and Mr. Crumbo, one of the authors of this proposal next Thursday in Kingman, to see exactly what is going on. Black helicopters, tapped phone lines, and now diversions: the conspiracy theorists seem to come out of the woodwork. For the rest of you sportsmen, this is for real, probably the largest threat to the AZ landscape (1.7 million acres proposed for designation) and to wildlife. It covers the entire North Rim, all of Units 12A and the eastern part of Unit 13A. We got just a couple of weeks to get on this. If Obama's people think this will fly with MOST of the public, then he'll do it for sure. They are not going to listen to any Republicans, but maybe just maybe some level headed Democrats might want to let others know this is NOT a good idea for Arizona or Arizona's wildlife. Don Martin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Devil Diver Down Report post Posted April 5, 2012 I haven't had time to read the entire proposal closely yet, but from what I have read I see it as 1) something that is NOT going to have legs in its current state or 2) a proposal that has some merits, IMHO at least. I may be alone or at least on the wrong side of the fence on this on most of your opinions, but I'm okay with that because I think it leaves room for discussion and I always try to have an open mind. Here are my takeaways so far: - I don't think the designation of the area as a National Monument is a good idea at all, so I reject it based on that first and foremost. I will email McCain & Kyl to oppose this, though I don't think it's in their ballpark to do so right now. - I dang sure would have a problem with wolves or grizz being re-introduced there and I sincerely hope the language that's in there--which doesn't at all call for a re-introduction, it allows for the Sectretaries of Ag and/or Interior to call for 'analysis regarding recovery' of those animals--would be slashed out of any real proposal. - Hunting and fishing is not excluded by any of the language I read. - It does not call for an end to grazing either--though I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. It allows for 'permanent retirement of grazing permits' but existing permits would continue. I suspect that it may mean that grazing would eventually peter out and come to an end as existing permits expire, but again I don't see that as a bad thing for me or other sportsmen. I can see why ranchers would not like it but there's quite a few issues I don't see eye to eye with ranchers. - It reduces road density in the area--another positive to me. I fail to see where that would not HELP deer populations. I understand about wanting access for work projects, bringing in catchments, etc but I don't think the size of reduction is large enough--one square mile--to sweat. I see it as a positive. That's my 2¢. Your mileage may vary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coueshunter Report post Posted April 5, 2012 Everyone, this is a real deal. We need to put tons of effort into raising our voices with the appropriate people in WA D.C. Maybe Don or another political savy person can give us a link to who our voices need to go to most. This isnt any diversion, its the real deal.............Don or someone, can you clarify who we should shout to the loudest???? Thanks..........Allen Taylor.......P.S. I have sent John McCain my feelings in a letter already........... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heat Report post Posted April 5, 2012 Allen, Bill Horn, United States Sportsmen's Alliance. Nick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
