Eliminate Auction tags entirely?

[krp]

AH got a tag for his money, a tag he can only get with money... that's it. if he's also volunteered working on projects then he can claim that, same as the rest of us. If he donates money into the HPC direct with no reimbursement he can claim that. If he props up azsfw with money that's a political PAC lobby, he can't claim that as conservation.

 

Kent

[Snapshot]

To think that multiple people would spend the equivelent on raffle tickets is outrageous. Potential buyers will simply take there money to other states that would still allow auction tags such as, cali, nev, utah, colo, new mex, oregon, wash, kansas, iowa, wyo, and every other state that has western big game!! I am lucky to clear 30 grand a year as a self employed electrician with a side biz of a few head of livestock, but I must say the wealth envy of the bulk of you is disgusting...and very obvious, even if you won't admit to your selves...

 

Based on your forum name, it seems that you have a little envy going on as well. I certainly have wealth envy. I would love to be rich. But no matter how much money I had, I would never buy an auction tag. But I would certainly donate alot of money to wildlife conservation.

[Bugler]

Lol

[Bugler]

BJ you didn't answer my question

[donniedent]

Ok, pick the most unintelligent one-off quote and ingnore the good arguments. I went fishing an you bit.

 

Now, let's really debate this.

 

You base your whole argument on what one of your heros donates to wildlife condervation. But wait, if you expect something in return, you can't really call it a donation. Expos are nothing more than a used car tent sale. They exist only to feed themselves, the proof is in the numbers provided above. We as sportsmen are saying to you and your heros, we don't want your money... Not if it is going to be used to hold us hostage. This bill failed, this whole idea will fail. The sportsmen of have Arizona have proven time and again that we won't use our wildlife to pay ransom to the greedy. And yes, if you donate and eventually expect a return on your donation, you just entered to realm of the greedy. You have proven you want nothing more than to argue when you took my bait and quoted my bait post. Give up sir. You aren't gonna seel your kool-aid here.

[krp]

I'm having a hard time finding where any of the auction or raffle tag monies are officially charity donations as in Tax deductible. If it is a purchase, then it's a transaction with both parties getting value, or in the raffle, a gamble for value same as the rez casino. If it's not tax deductible then throwing out the word donation is disingenuous.

 

Kent

[biglakejake]

just a link to a hamberlin infected site...re:tax writeoffs....you have heard of it now take a look at the ugly state of hunting in the west.

 

http://mossback.com/2012/03/08/conservation-tags-for-auction-this-weekend-march-9-10-your-next-tax-write-off/

 

i also hear that jay lopeman of mossbackAZ is lurking around CWT forums and posting under a pseudonym. has bigjohnsonboy ever gotten around to introducing hisself?

 

lee

 

Insanity runs in the family-it practically gallups!

[donniedent]

It is absolutuely NOT a donation. It is a purchase. The is about keeping our public wildlife from becoming a commodity to be bought and sold to the highest bidder. If the funds are used soley for the purpose of wildlife conservation, then its arguable. The current auction and raffle tags are sufficient but if they provide a loophole for those motiveted by self interest to take tags from the general public then it might need to be closed and a subsitution put in place to raise the funds. A $5 habitat stamp would more than cover what the auction tags bring in. The whole point is that the funds from any tag sold outside of the draw should not be controled by a private entity. I think its a lost cause.

[krp]

Yea... I'm just trying to wrap my brain around how AH paid for the project we've worked on. the examples of auction tags can't be right as he paid for a tag, that tag had value and would sell to someone, once the money exchanges hands then that money belongs to someone else to spend in the next cycle of purchases... that's how economy works.

 

If he donated funds for a specific project without compensation, like we do on our unaffiliated jr hunts, then that's understandable and he should get credit. But that wasn't the way it was described in this thread...

 

Buying a tag isn't doing anything but buying a tag and if a Rez tag/hunt is worth 40 grand then a 365 day anywhere tag is worth multiple times more on it own merit.

 

Kent

[DesertBull]

AH got a tag for his money, a tag he can only get with money... that's it. if he's also volunteered working on projects then he can claim that, same as the rest of us. If he donates money into the HPC direct with no reimbursement he can claim that. If he props up azsfw with money that's a political PAC lobby, he can't claim that as conservation.

 

Kent

 

and now the same guy that buys these tags wants to create more. Supply and demand tells us that more tags will mean that each one will have a lesser value. So, maybe the motivation is to lower the price of his "donations" because the housing market, which I believe is where he makes his income, is in the crapper. He still gets to hunt 365, take his tax write off and disregard unit boundaries, season dates, and bag limits but at a lower cost and less competition in bidding.

[Bugler]

And gets to possibly put money towards "admin". Costs associated with an expo.

[krp]

And the money comes right back to the organizations that he has part control of, pretty good gig.... bypassing G&F... who in reality are the ones 'raising' money for conservation by 'selling' tags...

 

Another ethical dilemma... how can you be the seller and buyer of a 'public' resource.

 

Kent

[DesertBull]

Sounds a lot like public unions. An endless cycle of sponging off of the tax payer. Unions collect dues, give a portion to politicians, who in turn funnel gov't work to the unions and write pro unions laws.....round and round it goes.

[krp]

It seems to me there was a system started by G&F to create some dollars for conservation, auction tags. Most of us didn't pay attention besides thinking if we won the lottery, hey it'd be fun. I couldn't have told you who bought a tag or if the same guy did multiple times, seems outrageous but a man's money is his to do spend. Now having been forced to look, the system has been taken over by a select few as far as purchase, but at least it was still G&F collecting the monies for the HPC.

 

Now those same ones are now attempting to be the payers, collectors and spenders of the monies... cutting the G&F and HPC out.

 

Kent

[bonuspointjohn]

Hey guys, I was thinking of solutions to the issue, and one such solution that I have not really seen discussed is a bill to eliminate the sale of auction tags entirely. Hear me out on this please. If the people behind HB 2072 were so easily able to get a bill proposed to set aside auction tags for sale. Why couldn't we pass a bill to eliminate the sale of auction tags altogether? Wouldn't this pretty much stop AZSFW and Gilstrap in their tracks, as it is the main backbone of the plan they are trying to push through? Maybe this is why they tried to push HB 2072 as emergency legislation, as they were worried that we'd respond with something like this?

 

Now it seems many of us are against the adding of additional auction tags, so let's examine this further. Why is it that were opposed with adding additional auction tags, but we already currently allow tags to be sold to the highest bidder? Why do we tolerate this at all? IMO allowing one of these tags is just as bad as having 10 of em, and just as bad as 20, etc. If we close the door entirely, then they cant keep trying to take a little more each year. Now one of the reasons that I see thrown around the most is that they are a necessary evil to get the additional revenue they generate, but it this really true? Here's my thinking: If we eliminate all auction tags, and put those tags that were previously auctioned into the AZ big game super raffle, what's to stop the would be auction tag buyers, from buying as many raffle tickets as they want? They, could spend $100,000 on raffle tickets, and not only that, but you may have multiple guys who are willing to spend this kind of money for tickets, instead of just the one winner like you would have in an auction. In this type of instance, obviously the guy who buys the most tags has a better chance of drawing a tag, but it doesn't guarantee them a permit like the current auction system does. I think that if these guys that are currently buying the auction tags, do not have another outlet to purchase the tags, they will funnel their money into the supper raffle in an attempt to win the tag instead. So to summarize, I think that we should seriously consider proposing a bill to eliminate auction tags entirely, and use the current auction tags that are already set aside to be placed into the super raffle. I think that the money lost from the auction tags can potentially be offset by the amount of additional revenue generated by the extra raffle tickets purchased in the super raffle. What does everyone think?