donniedent Report post Posted March 28, 2012 Well, I can tell you, if I had 30k to spend on a tag, I personally wouldn't spend it on a shot at a tag, I'm gonna spend it on a tag. There's always the off chance that I dropped 30k for nothing. The true issue is who is in control of the money generated, not auction tags themselves. If Game and Fish wanted to set aside 350 tags for auction and receive the money generated you'd hear a lot less noise about it. You'd still hear noise but not to this extent. Wildlife is just one of those things where capitolism doesn't seem to work. Don Peay said wildlife belonging to the public is socialism... Ok fine, it is. The draw is one of last level playing feilds in this country and it should stay that way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted March 28, 2012 Why write the law so ONLY SFW can be given the tags to auction? If you want/need more auction tags, ask for them but let them be auctioned off as they are now, by each of the different groups. The only reason you would write the law like you did was to have all the power. I have no beef with the wealthy as long as they got their money legally. More power to you. But that wealth should not allow you to circumvent the bag limit or the draw process. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
40-year-AZ-hunter Report post Posted March 28, 2012 Does anyone know what the raffle tags bring in vs. the auction tag? In 2011, the mule deer auction tags brought in more than the raffle tag. Of the two antelope auction tags, one exceeded the raffle amount and one was less. For every other species (elk, sheep, Coues, etc) the raffle tag generated more than either of the auction tags. Bruce Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dobbs07 Report post Posted March 28, 2012 I don't think anyone disagrees with what you are saying but if private entities want to use a good example of what auction tags can do as a loophole to further their own agenda and distribute the money as they see fit, I don't think shutting the loophole completely is a bad idea. Its very unfortunate that we should even need to entertain the idea. This is kind of what I was thinking. We can debate the merits of auction tags all we want, but the bottom line is this would effectively shut the door on Hb2072, AZSFW, Gilstrap, and all the rest participating in this power grab. Or at the very least getting a bill like this out there, could muddy the waters enough that they wouldn't be able to get their bill through legislation this session. Imagine if their lobbyists suddenly have to go on that he defensive to fight the passage of a bill banning the sale of auction tags. It would make it alot harder to get their agenda passed if they had to fight another bill at the same time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muskrat Report post Posted March 28, 2012 Why write the law so ONLY SFW can be given the tags to auction? If you want/need more auction tags, ask for them but let them be auctioned off as they are now, by each of the different groups. The only reason you would write the law like you did was to have all the power. I have no beef with the wealthy as long as they got their money legally. More power to you. But that wealth should not allow you to circumvent the bag limit or the draw process. Agree 100% 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donniedent Report post Posted March 28, 2012 The only problem I see with shutting the whole auction tag process is that it takes dollars from the one place that needs it most right now, Arizona game and fish. There are other ways to generate the money and if there was a gauranteed way to do it... I would be for it. Like krp said, I'll never buy an auction tag so I'm not missing anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kwp Report post Posted March 28, 2012 I really don't think that this would help. If auction tags were eliminated them AZSFW would just change the bill so that they got all the raffle tags and the proceeds from the raffle tags. We'd be right back in the same mess we are in. The issue isn't the special (auction or raffle) tags, it is that they think that they should have total control over them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
audsley Report post Posted March 28, 2012 If I had anything useful to add that hasn't already been said, I'd speak up. I think you guys are getting it just about right. Revenue from the current auction tags offered through Game & Fish is controlled by Game & Fish and goes straight to habitat work. That's how it needs to stay. Keep up the good work Donnie Dent, Muskrat, KRP, Desert Bull and others. I only wish we had a statewide sportsmen's group led by guys like you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigjohnson123 Report post Posted March 28, 2012 The only problem I see with shutting the whole auction tag process is that it takes dollars from the one place that needs it most right now, Arizona game and fish. There are other ways to generate the money and if there was a gauranteed way to do it... I would be for it. Like krp said, I'll never buy an auction tag so I'm not missing anything. That is where you guys are wrong. donniedent says "I'll never buy an auction tag so i'm not misssing anything" You may never buy an auction tag but you sure a heck benefit from them. Have you ever seen how dependant the elk in unit 9 and the deer in in unit 13 are on madmade water catchments. Do you think these catchments just sprout and grow on there own. NO! They cost tens of thousands of dollars each and catchments are only one of many things that auction tags fund. So, while you may never buy one you most certainly would be missing alot of thing without them. Again, remove the blinders and look at the real picture here... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donniedent Report post Posted March 28, 2012 No blinders on here pard and please don't assume to know who you are talking at. Been on a couple water projects myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkaholic Report post Posted March 28, 2012 the bottom line is who controls the money ! they are saying azsfw should have complete control - I'm not against the current governor/auction tags - they are doing great for the state and will continue we know g&f has full control of the money. why does this group azsfw think they can do better !?? we can not trust azsfw to give any money they offer 30% they do not say 30 % of all funds from banquet /expo but more like 30% of the funds from the sales of tags the expo could raise several millions the tags might bring 3 - thats 900,000 how do you split that between all the programs ! where were you when this started ? big joke - go away we've been thru this over and over Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elkhunter1 Report post Posted March 28, 2012 The only problem I see with shutting the whole auction tag process is that it takes dollars from the one place that needs it most right now, Arizona game and fish. There are other ways to generate the money and if there was a gauranteed way to do it... I would be for it. Like krp said, I'll never buy an auction tag so I'm not missing anything. That is where you guys are wrong. donniedent says "I'll never buy an auction tag so i'm not misssing anything" You may never buy an auction tag but you sure a heck benefit from them. Have you ever seen how dependant the elk in unit 9 and the deer in in unit 13 are on madmade water catchments. Do you think these catchments just sprout and grow on there own. NO! They cost tens of thousands of dollars each and catchments are only one of many things that auction tags fund. So, while you may never buy one you most certainly would be missing alot of thing without them. Again, remove the blinders and look at the real picture here... You say take off the blinders, well I for one can see right through you and your cronies. This bill is just the stepping stone to taking total control over the natural resources that this state has to offer EVERY MAN, WOMEN, AND CHILD, (as in public property). You say all the money will go to the wildlife, then you need to prove it to me. When you can do that I will vote for this bill or anybody in the leg. that votes for it. The real problem is you can't prove that with the wording that is in it now. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkaholic Report post Posted March 28, 2012 please explain this to me - i'm not an accountant off the 2010 tax statement for azsfwc banquet fund raiser grossed : 171,778 ---------------------------- cash expenses ; 1,000 non-cash prize expenses: 190,119 total revenue from the banquet fundraiser -19,341 with hamberlin loaning 50,000 banquet seed money yep trust them with millions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krp Report post Posted March 28, 2012 Now don't actually bring real math into it... geeze An expo would cost millions, raise millions in tag monies... wanna bet if there would be any left on the ledger after the big party and all got their tags... Kent Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigjohnson123 Report post Posted March 28, 2012 No blinders on here pard and please don't assume to know who you are talking at. Been on a couple water projects myself. Well good for you "pard". Great chance Alan Hamberlin paid for them too. So blind you don't even know it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
