ADA decision

[javihammer]

Feel free to insert your own group name, I think this letter would cover the bases.

 

 

Dear Members,

 

Our critter group has recently attended several meetings with hunters and members of the Arizona Game and Fish Department. We have also sent surveys to gauge support for tags being pulled from the general Arizona draw for auction or raffle. Although a few of our members have expressed support, most have expressed strong feelings against this concept. Our leadership has determined that by partnering with groups like AZSFW/AZSFWC we are supporting future threats against hunt opportunity for most hunters in Arizona. Our group has decided to break ties with these groups until we get a wrtitten promise that these groups will end any future attempts at public tag grabs (or expos) through legislation or other means. By "breaking ties" we mean ending any relationship with these groups that provides funding or allowing our good name to be used or listed on their website to support things we view as inconsistent with the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation. We also feel the AZSFW and AZSFWC share some common roots (and naming conventions) with a group in Utah that has a very poor reputation in the National conservation arena, we do not want to give the slightest implication that we support or are affiliated with this group.

 

Our critter group has been around a long time and it is important to us that we have the trust of our membership, most of our members are average family hunters that view hunting as a recreational opporunity and not a business proposition. Our wildlife group supports healthy wildlife populations and opportunity for all of our members, not business and trophy opportunities for our wealthiest members. Our leadership believes hunting tags are opportunties owned by the citizens of Arizona, they should never be used to to enrich anyone or anything other than wildlife or given against the wishes of the Arizona hunting majority.

 

Thanks again for hanging in there with us while took a deliberative approach to this situation, we promise to proactively communicate and be good stewards of our members trust as we partner with you in the future. .

 

Thanks again for your support,

J Doe

[donniedent]

Very well written. If I had to make a statement, thats what I would hope to be able to say and that represents my feelings.

[donniedent]

It seem obvious that most will not get what they want from the ADA. It seems like John did state that the ADA will not continue funding AZSFW. If you are a member you have the opportunity to speak at a board meeting.

 

What about the other groups/Organizations. The ABA asked it's membership what they thought of HB 1072. The membership overwhelmingly said they did not support it. They did not ask what the membership thought of AZSFW. Why did they leave that out? What is the status of other organizations?

 

I think at this point we should be looking forward to the meeting on the 8th. If we can all stay focused and work together we may be able to make some progress.

 

 

The first words out of Randy's mouth at the last commission meeting was "We do not support HB2072" (we being the ABA) if that helps any.

[runningbird]

My point was actually that, many are asking the ADA to make a position on the AZSFW. What is the ABA's position.

Did Randy mention that?

[donniedent]

No mention of that. Randy was representing the ABA, he is not the pres. I did not get the chance to meet him either.

 

Here is what I have gathered about AZSFW.

I do believe that started with the right intentions. It was started with the intention to gather funds to fight the political battles. Member orgs gave money to support it and fund the fight. I believe as time went on and the economy went south, some orgs stopped giving them so much money. In an effort to replace lost funds HB2072 was conceived. Nobody had the money to give them so to survive they had to do something. My personal opinion is that they were never going to gain much traction with average joes that were educated about the Utah group because of how close their names were, so... There wasn't much money that was going to come from that direction. Many of the people closely involved with HB2072 have done a lot of good things for Arizona wildlife. One horrible idea and plan has tainted otherwise good names.

 

There's a lot going on here. You have orgs that pulled out of AZSFW completely. You have orgs that do not support HB2072 but have not pulled out. And yet other orgs that have not said anything. I personally believe that AZSFW is done. I think we waste ammo shooting at a sinking ship. I would like to see focus shift to moving ahead. There was a lot of energy created by opposition to the bill but... Not all energy is good energy. If we don't convert the negative energy into positive energy, it will soon be wasted. We can continue to chase down the ADA and others but to what end? Wouldn't our energy be better utilized in a positive move forward?

 

As Kent stated, yes... Arizona sportsmen do a lot to support conservation efforts by buying licenses and gear. I agree that we should create greater ties and support the national orgs. I don't like to see state orgs overly involved in politics either but sometimes it is unavoidable.

 

I would like to see a movement by all the orgs in the state to gather more support from average sportsmen. I think various groups should get volunteers on the ground during the hunts to go and visit camps. Sit down at a campfire with average hunters and ask them what they would like to see happen. What better time to get a feel for what they think? You could create e-mail lists that could be shared by the different orgs so we can truly create a means of communication with the public. I myself would be more than happy to get out and talk to folks. These boards are good but in the end, you are preaching to the choir. We need to find a way to connect with more sportsmen.

 

Donnie

[AZLance]

ABA board members told me that they have withdrawn from AZSFW, and are no longer affiliated with AZSFW. They also asked AZSFW to remove their name from their website.

 

I was not convinced, so I contacted Suzane B. Gilstrap with AZSFW and got the following response in e-mail:

 

Suzanne B. Gilstrap Suzanne B. Gilstrapsuzanne@capitolconsultingaz.com

 

To 'Lance Altherr'

From: Suzanne B. Gilstrap (suzanne@capitolconsultingaz.com)

Sent: Tue 4/17/12 8:21 AM

To: 'Lance Altherr' (ihuntaz@live.com)

 

 

They have not paid their renewal dues yet.

 

-----Original Message-----From: Lance Altherr [mailto:ihuntaz@live.com] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 10:12 PMTo: suzanne@capitolconsultingaz.com

 

Subject: ABA

 

Is the ABA still a member in good standing? I have heard rumors that they terminated their membership with AZSFW.

 

Thanks, Lance Altherr

Ihuntaz@live.com

[donniedent]

Couple thoughts I forgot to add...

 

The commission is willing to listen and we need to take advantage of that. The more voices that are represented, the more they will listen. G and F does hunter surveys, we need do them as well... On the ground, when guys minds are on hunting.

 

Youth.... We need to get our youth involved in projects too. I see no better way to battle apathy than to teach our kids different. Teach them that we owe it to the wildlife we love to create a better habitat for them to thrive in. Teach them to predator hunt. If all we do is teach our kids to hunt, we might be passing on the apathy that exists now.

 

Donnie

[ThomC]

quote "I do believe that started with the right intentions. It was started with the intention to gather funds to fight the political battles." quote

 

I dont.

 

Do a search for Don Peay and you will find out how the SFW is out to get different states into his new method of managing wildlife. It is a bigger deal than the few in AZ. I dont think that the AZ people were that naive. It is a money/control grab. Remember the New Mexico outfitter deal a few years ago? IMHO

[elkaholic]

you are a little mislead iof you think they will just go away -

 

lets just forget about them and move on - REALLY!?

 

they still want to control azg&f - with the commisssioners reveiw board .

 

what are we teaching the kids - when you are confronteed with a problem you have to make sure you correct it! itnot quit before its finished .- if you start something you need to see it thru to the end .

 

its great to think it would go away on its own but thats not gonna happen.

 

AZSFW will not just go awaay by themselves.

 

from one of the crew -- " As far as the AZSFW, it will continue to exist, but in a far different format and certainly without funding from any of the conservation groups, including the ADA."

 

 

 

Hamberlin thru 50,000 around at the azsfw like it was cotton candy

the little funding from the groups means nothing to a guy who'll throw 200,000 at a deer tag.

it was having the voice of the majority of Arizona sportsmen groups - that voice is gone

 

 

 

we have to eliminate this organization here in ARIZONA!!

 

 

yes the ABA needs to come forward and withdraw support also along with all the others!!

[donniedent]

Thom, you might be completely correct. I know that when AZSFW was first getting going I refused to support them because I believed there were ties to Utah. I try to assume the best about people in public as to not create hard feelings. I also cannot even fathom trying to assume the intention of those I have never spoken to. If their motivations came to full fruition in HB2072, then now we know. I guess you can only assume that to be true at this point. I think AZSFW going away is a good thing and I truly believ that will happen.

 

Donnie

[donniedent]

Elkoholic,

 

Trust me when I say AZSFW by name has zero chance of surving IMO. They are toxic and bad juju. What we need to watch is where those intimately involved go.

 

We have some good watchdogs out there and they will let us know what is going down at the legislature.

 

The BEST things we can do to battle this is to eliminate the excuses used to grab tags and excuse number one is to fund the fight against the antis. So how do we do that? I think the best way to do that is with numbers. I also believe that the best approach to building numbers is a positve campaign. The anits don't show commercials about hunters, they show commercials about kittens and puppies. We could learn a thing or two from the antis on fundraising and campaigning.

 

Donnie

[donniedent]

Here's my last post on this topic.

 

If there are some that want to sit here and pound the AZSFW and the ADA into powder have at it. I personally don't think it produces one ounce of good fruit. I also don't believe it will add one person to the list of those that want to do more for wildlife comservation. This is NOT going to get more of those that don't frequent these sites to join our ranks. I'm not singling anyone out but we can all sit here and play keyboard jockey activist but how many projects does that get done? From now on, you can find me fighting to get more sportsmen involved in conservation projects, the commission meeting process, predator hunts and youth recruitment. Arguing with folks that I agree with 99.999 percent of the time is a waste of my time.no hard feelings toward any of you... At all. Thanks for the debate, I've enjoyed it!

 

Donnie Lee

Donniepdr@gmail.com

602.677.4537

 

Feel absolutely free to contact me if you want to discuss any of the topics I mentioned above! Look forward to talking to any and all of you!!!

[Heat]

Donnie,

 

Thank you for putting things in the appropriate perspective IMO. You are a great advocate!

 

Nick

[elkaholic]

I'm not singling anyone out but we can all sit here and play keyboard jockey activist but how many projects does that get done?

 

just to put this in perspective -

 

if not for some "keyboard jockey activists" azsfw would be sitting with 350 taqgs and we'd have a new law 2072 .

 

if not for some key board activist you'd probably not be so fired up to "From now on, you can find me fighting to get more sportsmen involved in conservation projects, the commission meeting process, predator hunts and youth recruitment."

 

none of this would have happened !there'd probably be no swsa etc.

 

 

 

just saying!

[krp]

Donnie is doing a great job... my one post about pubic and private was to the couple folks that said they didn't owe us an answer, well maybe I don't remember well but those of us at the ADA meeting wanting an answer were suppose to get one at a later date, since we couldn't get one that night... I was challenged to show up to speak and get answers... ironic.

 

Anyway, I'm still working on stuff, just no use talking much till it's complete.

 

Kent