Our own faults

[TLH]

Larry,

 

You can bet i will be there. i will not mention 2072 but everything i will talk about will be aimed at them. It is easy for me to talk about the facts and shoot their facts to the ground.

 

I can not believe these folks are still pushing this thing--do they really believe people will forget about this in a couple years? USO has never left my mind--even now that it is owned by another person it still leaves a taste in my mouth like it was yesterday--no i do not believe we will forget.

 

See ya tomorrow!

[donniedent]

Amanda,

 

You make a very valid point.

 

The results of 3bar did show that if you remove all the predators, the herd grew. But that is no possible in the wild. We will never remove all the predators nor would we want to. As far as game and fish doing more about predator control, that ball is kind of in our court. They are now allowing night hunting of coyotes and lions in certain areas of the state. They also have opened special management areas for lions. I can't imagine that game and fish wants more predators out there than deer. Just not reality.it wouldn't make any fiscal sense for them to want that. Game and fish can only do so much, especially when they have to deal with all the crap we should have stopped with our own dollars and participation. Showing up and talking at meetings is great but we need boots on the ground at water projects. We need more hunters out there shooting coyotes. We need our good orgs to grow and have the fianances to fight the anit's and bad bills. We ALL know by now all the bad things about this bill, what are we going to do when its over?

[wetmule]

Bill, Terry & Amanda are exactly correct with regard to the precedent this bill will set if enacted. It's called the laws of unintended consequences and looking a bit further down the road than you can pee into the wind.... which appears to me exactly how far AZSFW has looked into their crystal ball . This bill opens the door for the Sierra Club or the Center for Biological Diversity or whoever, to petition & lobby the legislature for their own tags to raffle and auction off for their own coffers and lobbyist's loyal to their own causes. Yes hunters will be the recipient of those tags too but the portion of $$$ not going back into wildlife habitat etc. will be used against us by their lobbyists to promote their wolf hybrid projects and the like. I would bet, that Sierra Club ball is already rolling and they are making preparations as I type to do just that. They have exponentially more money than we do and they are exponentially more organized than we are. We need to keep politics and the legislature out of the North American Model of wildlife conservation, otherwise it explodes - PERIOD!

[Snapshot]

Well said Terry. My sentiment exactly.!

 

It is quiet apparent why AZSFW is still pushing this through. They have heard the cry of the angry sportsman, and they just don't care about our concerns. If AZSFW had any real concerns for sportsman as a whole, they would stop. But they won't. This is about money and nothing else. If passed, HB2072 will open the floodgates for future house bills that will haunt us forever.

[coueshunter]

Kevin,amanda,terry.....I haven't heard from john or Pete about how the meeting went last night, but all in all, I still wonder why privatizing a public resource was OK in azsfw's mind? I think everyone agrees that we need more money/unity in the hunting community to address population numbers, access, recruitment & anti-hunting legislation, but why didnt the azsfw people reach out to the various conservation groups to get input and ideas????? even after the blow up on this bill, there hasn't been the needed communication. I sure hope Pete got support to kill hb2072 last night.....if anyone has heard what happened, post it or call me....allen Taylor......

[audsley]

Now I'm really confused. Who is this "Pete" who Coueshunter hopes got support to kill the bill last night?

 

Wetmule is exactly right. If revenue from tag sales ends up in the hands of one group for lobbying and public relations purposes, you're open to having to do it for everyone. All it takes is a change in the legislature's makeup or possibly a judge's ruling. You don't want to establish a precedent you wouldn't want your enemies to follow.

[coueshunter]

audsley.........Pete is one of the original founders of azsfw. on the board of governors of Ada.....has been active in wildlife management for 30 plus years. he recently sent out a letter that he thought hb2072 should die. I was hoping his message was heard last night.........

[40-year-AZ-hunter]

Now I'm really confused. Who is this "Pete" who Coueshunter hopes got support to kill the bill last night?

 

Wetmule is exactly right. If revenue from tag sales ends up in the hands of one group for lobbying and public relations purposes, you're open to having to do it for everyone. All it takes is a change in the legislature's makeup or possibly a judge's ruling. You don't want to establish a precedent you wouldn't want your enemies to follow.

 

Suzanne and Alan (and whoever Pete is) will really let the genie out of the bottle!

 

Bruce

[tscott]

I think a few of you guys are missing Donnies point. With or without the bill we as sportsmen and women need to engage and join a group that fit their specific needs. I am proud to announce that I'm a part of a grassroots upstart group called SOUTHWEST SPORTSMEN'S ALLIANCE. This bill had nothing to do with it. It was our declineing deer herds and struggling sheep population that motivated me to join. Honestly I haven't seen one single Org being proactive in helping our sheep and deer herds in the northern half of region 4. At least now, I know I'm joining a group that has an interest in the area's I live and hunt. It was alarming to me to see how many people griped and complained about this bill and gripe and complaine about the dept and thats all they do. They might write a letter or two and villianize people who don't agree with them. But of the loudest people beating the war drums had a golden oppurtuninty to show up at a AZGF sanctioned waterhole project this past weekend failed to show.

 

Honestly the animals don't care who gets the money or tags. All the animals care about is food,water and shelter. They can't do it by themselves and it's up to us to do it for them.

[Snapshot]

I think a few of you guys are missing Donnies point. With or without the bill we as sportsmen and women need to engage and join a group that fit their specific needs. I am proud to announce that I'm a part of a grassroots upstart group called SOUTHWEST SPORTSMEN'S ALLIANCE. This bill had nothing to do with it. It was our declineing deer herds and struggling sheep population that motivated me to join. Honestly I haven't seen one single Org being proactive in helping our sheep and deer herds in the northern half of region 4. At least now, I know I'm joining a group that has an interest in the area's I live and hunt. It was alarming to me to see how many people griped and complained about this bill and gripe and complaine about the dept and thats all they do. They might write a letter or two and villianize people who don't agree with them. But of the loudest people beating the war drums had a golden oppurtuninty to show up at a AZGF sanctioned waterhole project this past weekend failed to show.

 

Honestly the animals don't care who gets the money or tags. All the animals care about is food,water and shelter. They can't do it by themselves and it's up to us to do it for them.

 

Yep. And guys that never post on the forum always show up and chastise those of us that do.

[tscott]

The number of a persons post has nothing to do with the merit of what one has to say in his or her post.

[coueshunter]

Scott & Donnie both have valid points. if all of us don't put some effort forth on projects/donations/volunteering etc....we aren't doing the wildlife any good on the ground where it counts.....step up now and do what you can.......allen....

[runningbird]

Scott & Donnie both have valid points. if all of us don't put some effort forth on projects/donations/volunteering etc....we aren't doing the wildlife any good on the ground where it counts.....step up now and do what you can.......allen....

 

Now is the key here! don't wait or we will all regret it.

[donniedent]

I really don't know how this topic got so side tracked/hijacked.

 

Listen, all I was trying to say is that our efforts need to not end with the defeat of this bill. All of us know someone who hunts but doesn't hit these boards. We need to get involved and get them involved. Shoot I've even considered visiting hunting camps and talking to folks even if I'm not hunting. We need to connect and get active. I'm not beating up on anyone that has a passion to see the bill die but I am saying that we're here because of our own lack of participation. If we showed a mere fraction of the passion we have shown about this bill in some conservation efforts by gosh I do think we could make it rain.

[Snapshot]

The number of a persons post has nothing to do with the merit of what one has to say in his or her post.

 

I don't have any problems with an idea, or statement, that has merit. I do have a problem with people that seem to feel that sportsman who do not volunteer their time on wildlife projects are supposed to be the "Silent majority". If we don't volunteer, then we have no right to speak up, or "Beat the war drums". I have my own opinion on that issue. I may not be a "Super Hero" conservationist volunteer, but I have the right to speak out as loudly as I please, anytime I please.

 

Regardless of what Wildlife Org. a person, does,or does not, belong to, all the volunteer projects in the world will not produce winter/spring rain, Eliminate predation, or mans encroachment.

 

Volunteer work is a commendable endeavor. But it is not the cure all, end all, of the problems we face. Mother nature holds alot of the cards. A greedy and selfish society, as well as blind politics, play a crucial role in our wildlife future.