Our own faults

[donniedent]

Let me start off by saying 1 simple thing, I'm talking to myself here too.

 

For about a month now we have following this bill. We have argued its merits. We have have engaged in argements with fellow hunters and we've use inflamitory language.

 

We have no one to blame but ourselves for the HB2072 mess and let me explain why.

 

AZSFW has used the "anti" arguement as a big reason for this bill. They have also used "conservation" as a reason. So, they are seeking to obtain tags to auction off and hold raffles for to fund conservation projects and to fight the anti's for us. Interesting. Shouldn't we already be funding this effort. Let's say for arguments sake that AZSFW's motives are true and pure, why should they have to take our tags away from is to get the funding to do what is right? They shouldn't have any reason or excuse to take our tags, we should already be donating the funds through our current conservation orgs to do this stuff. There are too many of us who have sat back, bought our licences and drew our tags and called it conservation. That isn't near enough anymore guys. The anti's have huge sums of money at their disposal. Why? Because the people that share their beliefs dug deep and donated to their cause. We have sat on our collective butts. Now, realize there are many, many people who will read this who have done a comendable job of working for wildlife and digging deep and if that's you, please disregard this but there are plenty of people who have Not done enough and are wringing their hands over this bill. Well guys, had we not sat on our hands for so long we wouldn't be wringing them now.

 

Do the research, find an org that holds your values and join them and become a member. Donate your time and whatever money you are able. If you want to preserve our heritage and culture, step up or shut up. Its like complaining about the president when you didn't vote.

[CouesWhitetail]

I agree....Let's find a solution that unites hunters to solve the problems at hand.

[coueshunter]

ABSOUTELY ON THE MARK. We complain, bicker, fight etc...but we dont donate time/money/energy towards prevention. We are really good at REACTING but not real good at PREVENTING. Open your minds, schedules, wallet and do whatever you can now and from here on out to create unit within the Hunting community...............if you dont know how/what, send me an email and I will give suggestions.............Allen Taylor...........

[Chef]

...and donate time and/or money to the organization that represents you best.

[Ringer]

I just got off the phone with a good guy that was at the Gilstrap meeting last night. He said exactly the same thing. They are going to force this bill through and feel that 90% of AZ hunters will forgive and forget in a year or two. They put charts up on how great SFW has done in managing wildlife in Utah and how crappy we have done here. I suggested a $25 habitat stamp dedicated to the same goal and that fell on deaf ears. Basically they are pushing that 99% of hunters never contribute to the cause. We better get ready because this thing is far from dead. I asked about opening the books to total transparency and that is not going to happen. They suggested combining the new SFW expo with the current G&F expo and that was scoffed at. These people are well funded and they are serious. They figure the organizations they lose will come back to the fold over time. We are in trouble now that politicians are listening to their favorite lobbyist.

[muskrat]

Let me start off by saying 1 simple thing, I'm talking to myself here too.

 

For about a month now we have following this bill. We have argued its merits. We have have engaged in argements with fellow hunters and we've use inflamitory language.

 

We have no one to blame but ourselves for the HB2072 mess and let me explain why.

 

AZSFW has used the "anti" arguement as a big reason for this bill. They have also used "conservation" as a reason. So, they are seeking to obtain tags to auction off and hold raffles for to fund conservation projects and to fight the anti's for us. Interesting. Shouldn't we already be funding this effort. Let's say for arguments sake that AZSFW's motives are true and pure, why should they have to take our tags away from is to get the funding to do what is right? They shouldn't have any reason or excuse to take our tags, we should already be donating the funds through our current conservation orgs to do this stuff. There are too many of us who have sat back, bought our licences and drew our tags and called it conservation. That isn't near enough anymore guys. The anti's have huge sums of money at their disposal. Why? Because the people that share their beliefs dug deep and donated to their cause. We have sat on our collective butts. Now, realize there are many, many people who will read this who have done a comendable job of working for wildlife and digging deep and if that's you, please disregard this but there are plenty of people who have Not done enough and are wringing their hands over this bill. Well guys, had we not sat on our hands for so long we wouldn't be wringing them now.

 

Do the research, find an org that holds your values and join them and become a member. Donate your time and whatever money you are able. If you want to preserve our heritage and culture, step up or shut up. Its like complaining about the president when you didn't vote.

 

Thank you. Remove (or minimize) the need for funding and effort, remove the (perceived) need of AZSFW and auction tags. Anti-hunters are absolutely united; they want hunting, then fishing - eradicated. Meanwhile we bicker about compound versus traditional, whether hounds are ethical, baiting versus not, the use of guides... you name it, we can tear ourselves up fighting about it.

 

Further - look around, we're preaching to the choir. 50 or a hundred people on internet message boards getting all fired up, banging on each other. I'm in more clubs than you. I spend more money than you. You're not reacting to this as vehemently as I think you should be. How many deer tags were issued last year? 10's of thousands? Where are those people in all of this? They have a stake in this. Those are the ones we have to motivate, educate and get engaged.

 

Everyone has something to offer "the cause". Volunteer time, donate money, volunteer labor, offer services to the critter groups or habitat projects, man a phone, lick envelopes, cook at cookouts, whatever.

[donniedent]

Here is another thing to consider...

 

How much money does Game and Fish spend dealing with things we should have stopped? Trapping ban! Wolf reintroduction, water projects...

 

We all have, at some point, complained about the department but the reality is they get their money to run from us. Had we been half the force that the anti's are, we would have stopped a lot of bad programs or funded good ones that the dept now pays for if we want our tag money to go where its supposed to go, we need to stop the anti's agenda from taking the departments time.

 

There are a slew of orgs out there, if you can't find one where you fit in, there's a problem. Or... You could start one.

 

I'm now involved in an upstart org called Southwest Sportmen's Alliance. We are concentrating on conservation projects in the northern part of region 4. We saw a need and we are trying to fill it.

 

The point is, our lack of action has created 90 percent of the problems we complain about. Do something to change that.

[CouesWhitetail]

here is a link with info on how to contact your legislators....that is what is needed to stop the bill....make some time today to let them know how you feel about this bill and any like it.

 

http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31148

[billrquimby]

Here's my two cents worth, for what it's worth. We will lose this battle if it is fought over the loss of a few hundred hunting permits from the drawing pool.

 

The broader issue, which could bring non-hunters into the fray if it were widely known, is that this proposal allows a private organization to sell our state's wildlife to the highest bidders and keep all or a large portion of the proceeds with no government oversight as to how that money is spent.

 

Bill Quimby

[40-year-AZ-hunter]

Here's my two cents worth, for what it's worth. We will lose this battle if it is fought over the loss of a few hundred hunting permits from the drawing pool.

 

The broader issue, which could bring non-hunters into the fray if it were widely known, is that this proposal allows a private organization to sell our state's wildlife to the highest bidders and keep all or a large portion of the proceeds with no government oversight as to how that money is spent.

 

Bill Quimby

 

+1 Bingo!

[AzHuntingAddict]

I have been making calls and sending letters to media outlets. How many sportsmen really know what this is all about or even that its going on? I feel like a first grader and the principle stole my twinkies!

[donniedent]

Guys... That's great, fight the house bill, kill it get rid of it... Please. But for Gods sake realize what got us here. While you're putting all this energy into fighting this bill, take a little time and look at the orgs. Don't find the ones you hate and want to bash, find the ones you like and JOIN! I won't promote one org over the other. I mentioned the one I'm involved in to make a point. Whether this bill passes or fails, each of us needs to do a little self evaluation and ask "am I really doing all I can?" If we put as much focus into good orgs as we did this bill we wouldn't be dealing with this bill. Please don't let this amount to nothing more than off season boredom and drama.

[CouesWhitetail]

Here's my two cents worth, for what it's worth. We will lose this battle if it is fought over the loss of a few hundred hunting permits from the drawing pool.

 

The broader issue, which could bring non-hunters into the fray if it were widely known, is that this proposal allows a private organization to sell our state's wildlife to the highest bidders and keep all or a large portion of the proceeds with no government oversight as to how that money is spent.

 

Bill Quimby

 

 

My concerns exactly. Personally I don't care if the tag allocation for fundraising means I won't get drawn for something, I am willing to sacrifice for the future good of the resource. But what really concerns me is the precedent set by selling a public resource to a private group (albeit a nonprofit) so they can resell at a higher price. And it bothers me that there are no concrete plans of action on how to use the money and no real oversight. Personally I think we should instead be pushing our AGFD to address the issues raised by AZSFW and find a way to best address things like reductions in mule deer populations. It seems we spend a lot on habitat projects and there are still problems with the herd. The ADA worked with AGFD to fund a study in the Three Bar area that showed that predators were dramatically reducing the mule deer population there. Why not use that information to see if targeted predator control might increase herds elsewhere?

[TLH]

I would like to make a few points:

 

1) The bill may get passed then what? Can you see what will happen next? can you see the cattle Growers grouping in mass and heading down to the Congress and asking for those Landowner Tags we all despise?? I can!

 

2) What will happen when this goes through and the Sierra Club says "hey, we need some love too--now give us some of those tags!" think it won't happen? think again.

 

3) History repeats itself--meaning? Do you think any army could have beaten the Native American's if the Native American's could have set aside their differences long enough to fight one battle? No way! This country would have been much different if they would have fought together but like us--they didn't and like them all of us hunters and fisherman will lose this battle if we don't get together and fight the fight.

 

4) The game and fish can not vote to keep trapping on public land we can but they really do not have enough in the department to beat the anti's and misinformed. Apathy is what AZSFW and the Anti's are hoping for--AZFW have now taken on the tactics of our enemies and they are hoping we are apathetic and not capable of joining hands and beating them just like we didn't do with the anti's and misinformed in the past.

 

5) And the question no one can answer--"HOW MUCH MONEY WILL IT TAKE TO END THIS DROUGHT?" it doesn't make any difference how much money any group can generate because if this drought continues there will be far less huntable numbers than we are seeing now. Utah has not had the problem in the drought as we in Arizona has and that is why they have done so well--it isn't because of the money it is because of the moisture--with out rain or snow we have no way of growing ground cover for our fawns and calves and with out that the predators will have a field day munching on baby's! So please tell me how the money generated with these tags will help our drought!

 

Those are a few--i could go on and on but you understand where i am coming from.....

[audsley]

Terry,

 

I hope you're at tomorrow night's meeting. You always grasp the salient points of the issue.

 

One of the chief proponents of HB 2072 once told me that I need to forget about the average hunter. He'll abandon hunting as soon as the going gets tough and find something else to do. It's the serious trophy hunter and the professional guide who hold the key to the future of hunting, and only they will save it. Was he right?

 

Tomorrow night's meeting is not about HB 2072. Rather it is about what non-governmental entity should speak for the interests of sportsmen and wildlife. Should it be a group that is funded by a combination of private money and tag revenues from the state's wildlife and entirely self-directed without government oversight, while claiming to represent YOU?

 

Currently the legislature is being told that AZSFW represents the state's sportsmen and sportsmen's conservation groups. Their guru is Don Peay, who says public ownership of wildlife is "socialism" and that wildlife should belong to landowners. Is that the future we want for hunting?

 

Read tomorrow night's meeting agenda carefully: http://azgfd.net/artman/publish/NewsMedia/Agenda-is-set-for-March-22-meeting-of-Sportsmen-s-Constituent-Group.shtml