Flushing -vs- Glassing

[CHD]

One of the first times I was turned on to Coues deer hunting was reading Jay Gates' book about 15 years ago. I also attended one of his seminars. His statements and opinions about big muleys gave credence to his opinions about the wonderful and challenging Coues deer. Me and other muley guys got bit, really hard. The Coues deer bug has taken hold and has multiplied many times since then, and here we all are.

 

One of the things I got from his book is that he had success jumping and shooting Coues deer in addition to glassing them up (spot and stalk). That is the way that O'Connor and many of the old timers used to hunt, back when Coues bucks were tame, LOL!

 

Are there any of you guys or gals that have had success by kicking brushy draws and likely bedding areas and hoping for a running shot? I bet there are some, since there is a lot of country for this kind of tactic, including shallow draws with oak stringers down the bottom with open hillsides. Also, there are plenty of mesquite thickets where this tactic could be applied.

 

I have tried this hunting tactic myself, but no wallhangers have gotten up yet. Only small bucks, which I prefer to pass on (as if I could really hit a running monster, LOL!)

 

Chris Darnell

Edited January 1, 1970 by CHD

[Diamondbackaz]

I have been a jump shooter all of my life since I enjoy hunting this way. However I am now older now and those killer hikes are getting more difficult. But you said it, most of the bucks that you will find are not the monsters you want to hang on the wall. Most of the deer I get are small three points not worth mounting. I finally tagged a nice one this year and will be my first mount. I have a pair of swarovkis coming in from Eagle optics and I will start doing the glassing routine since now I have to find something bigger to top this one.

[bullwidgeon]

Sometimes it is the only way . More than half of the nice deer (ones over 100 inches) my family has killed were kicked out after being glassed up and watching them disapear into somewhere thick and nasty. The bad part is trying to shoot one at 40 yards as it is jumping and running through catclaw up to your armpits . Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you shoot holes in the air, or ground or mesquite or whatever is around the deer. I am 0-2 on shooting at good bucks that way. Confucious say "One can never shoot enough running jackrabbits in the off season". At least you don't go home wondering if you could have kicked him out and killed him though. Also, back in the old days before big binos and tripods my grandfather use to line the boys (my dad and uncles) up in a skirmish line and then hike down about a half mile in front of them and have them push the thick oak and catclaw ridges, they killed a alot of deer that way including a few good ones.

 

Bret M.

[COUESAZ]

I like to shoot them when I see them. In my 20 years of hunting in southern Arizona I have glassed up alot of nice bucks both coues deer and mule deer. I like to get up high in my spot that I have glassed from for years . I have one for coues deer and mule deer.I like to let my binos do my walking for me. I will say though that nothing beats busting up a buck and shooting it on the run. My wife gets mad at me because i say nothing beats jumping a buck across the ridge and shooting him on the run. I remeber back when i was a kid. My dad would stop and glass the open faces of a ridge then we would glass the thick stuff on the other side of a ridge. some times we would find them that way other times we would do the old rock throw method . Then we would get ready for all heck to bust loose. Some of my best kills have been from that. they would come a busting out across the ridge right smack in the midle of the world war three onslot that I could put on back in those early years ( come on now you guy's know what I am talking about. That good old buck fever of those early years). Any way I love to glass them and put the sport of stalking to use , But man do I have a passion for the old bust and shoot hunting. Thank you for bringing this up it brings back a thousand memories of good times.It also brings back many memories of thousands of bullets thrown out of my good old 243 and 25-06. I hope we get some good stuff out of this one.

Edited January 1, 1970 by ARIZONA GUIDE

[More D]

Busting deer is a great way to scout before and just after the season. We all know that glassing is the best/easiest way but sometimes I have a real hard time sitting still for so long, I always want to see what is around the next bend or hill. Even after having scouted an area a few times before I aways seam to find a better glassing spot then where I am already sitting. So up I go. I will always be the first to walk a nasty canyon or catclaw pile not so much to give myself a shot opertunity, I can't hardly hit them standing still let alone running, but to almost make sure I see some thing.

I am kind of wierd. I do not have to make a kill to be happy, let alone some thing big. I truely enjoy the whole hunting experience, days off from work , time spent with the hunting party (my family), the outdoors. The only thing I ask for is to be able to shoot at a deer/elk/javi or anything else I am hunting, if I miss that is my own fault no one elses with that I am happy.

 

 

[coueshunter]

As a last resort I would push or jump them after having spotted them with bino's. I grew up hunting blacktail in western washington and all we did was jump deer and throw the lead. I know now it is much more productive to find them then stalk them hopefully without them knowing it and kill them standing or walking. Plus you are maximizing your time looking over alot more area glassing then pushing through a thicket........just my 2 cents........Allen.....

[coues addict]

CHD I have read a few Jack O`Conner books myself and I realize he liked jump shooting deer. Myself, when I first started deer hunting I seemed to jump them wether I wanted to or not , partially because I didn`t know what I was doing and partially because of plain dumb luck. Then a friend of mine showed me his Zeiss Bino`s . WOW ,the stuff that I could see. Well I got my first pair of Zeiss in 1978. I still love them . Then came tripods. OK , here`s the deal for me anyway. If you knew me You would probably think I am a little wacko, but this is the way that I glass, I use a grid pattern just like everyone else ,except as I glass I am constantly trying to read the terrain to see If I can get over there without totally killing myself. I love to explore new areas even if it takes me all day to get over to a new spot. I really don`t care how long it takes me to look over a good looking area. In this process I usually see calm , natural acting animals, Hey Coues are a small enough target to hit standing still, I am not a bad shot ,but ,I ain`t Jack O`Conner. I like the fact that ,If I spot a good Buck, He doesn`t know that I am there, = stalk and good shot. It takes time to convince yourself that sitting in one place for 1,2, hours or whatever is a smart thing to do . I think as we spot more game , our confidence in glassing grows. I think you`ll jump em without even trying while you try to get to that next ridge or canyon. If you feel the need to practice on running game ,try, coyote calling ,I love it ,and you get the adrenaline rush too. Good luck Coues Addict

Edited January 1, 1970 by coues addict

[CHD]

Several years ago in the Chiricahuas I actually saw some people hunting from horseback, evidently attempting to jump and shoot a buck. It appeared to me that they were working as a group, as there were several of them in a small area working some low ridges in fairly open country. At the time I knew that many of the old timers used to hunt from horseback, but it still was surprising to see them considering the modern day trend of glassing & stalking. They were probably just hunting for any buck, not necessarily a whopper. You surely would have to dismount, get your rifle to your shoulder, re-spot the leaping buck, and make a running shot all in a fairly quick, smooth manner. You would have to do several quick maneuvers just exactly right to make a shot while horseback hunting.

 

Have any of you guys seen or done horseback hunting?

 

Chris

Edited January 1, 1970 by CHD

[COUESAZ]

C H D

Hunting off of horses can help you out while hunting. All through highscool I hunted off of horses ( now I cant pay to feed them ). I used my rope horse to hunt on and he was funny he would stare off at something and if I would stop and glass in that area he was looking I would find deer. You can learn to be fast at getting off and shooting fast. My horse was so high strung that i would have to jump off and throw his lead rope into the cat claw so when I would shoot he wouldn't head for the barn. You have to remeber that if a deer sees and hears another animal they don'y spook as easy.I will say that all my horse hunting has been for mule deer, elk and lion. I have never atempted to take my horses up some of the stuff that i hunt coues in. I might try using mules for coues deer they are much more sure footed than a horse. Some of the best way to use horses is to have someone set at the top and do a drive to them. Horses get you up out of the thick brush and you can see a bit farther ahead of of them.

Edited January 1, 1970 by ARIZONA GUIDE

[Arizona Griz]

All of my deer hunting (Coues or Mule deer) was done by pushing the brush and jump shooting. I got my share of animals but as time went by and I got older I found, as most people have, that glassing was a better option. At least it doesn't take the wear and tear on the body.

Arizona Griz.

[Idahocoueshunter]

In a perfect world everyone would glass a good buck, make a good stalk, and make a one shot kill. I, on the other hand, have glassed till my eyes bugged out and missed bucks bedded in cover. Then when I re-postition myself on another ridge, I end up jumping the bedded buck. I have killed numerous coues bucks while they climb the other side of the canyon or my ridge, after I've bumped them. I have a pair of Ziess binoculars that I prefer to do the walking for me, but sometimes hitting all the small draws and canyons on foot produce good bucks. If I can figure out my scanner, I'll send some photos from this year. My dad and I kicked out two good bucks in one canyon. Our bucks dropped within thirty yards of each other. Sometimes it works out.

 

C.

[az4life]

Well, my experience is glassing and stalking is the best way to get a good deer. I have had a few big ones jump up when I least expected them and missed them as a result. I used to hunt with guys that loved to do the "pushes" down draws and hillsides, tossing rocks and making noises but they were not all that productive. Too many times you are in the wrong position to see anything of the deer to get a shot off. You hear it and maybe see a tail or antler, but the time is so short you cannot get a decent look to tell if it is one you would want. These Coues are too smart for that anyway. While doing these pushes, I have stepped within inches of them before they spooked. They really do know WHEN to jump so you don't have a shot!

Few exceptions, but overall, the spot, stalk works the best, and gives you the best look at your target. Not to mention safety! Just what the dang ANTIs want to see is a hunter stomping around and shooting at anything that moves..

 

I know that is not the position anyone has defended, but you know how the story CAN get spun in the liberal ANTIs mind. Does and ANTI have a mind?

 

My .02 worth...

Edited January 1, 1970 by az4life

[coueshunter]

Chris, I got to thinking some more on this (scary that I think....LOL....) I have spoken with Jay and some others like Duwane Adams and the general concensus is that it is much easier to kill a good buck by spotting/stalking. Of course you take them as the opportunity arises but back when O'connor was writing, there wasnt optics like today and nobody had thought of the tripod for bino's so the best method to cover alot of ground and see as many animals was by horse. Jack O'connor was an expert crack shot and had to be if he wanted to kill coues off horseback. Back in that day, he shot at any buck he jumped. When you jump a buck, it doesnt give you any time to guess the score so unless I have no other options, I still think the spot/stalk is by far the preferred way for me. Great topic.......thanks.......Allen........

[CHD]

I have spoken with many old timers about the 'good old days' of mule deer hunting of 40+ years ago. The behaviors of the bucks were completely different back then. Even old bucks would jump up and run in plain view at the slightest disturbance. Most would stop and look back before topping the next rise. Hunters didn't look at bucks as creatures that would hold tight and let you walk right by them. Most were hunted and shot by flushing.

 

As a result, the bucks that were killed first were the ones with the behavioral traits that made them easy to kill. So the bucks with these traits were quickly taken out of the gene pool. The ones that were left to pass on their genes were 'hiders' not 'runners', were more brush oriented, and had nerves of steel. The end result is that we now have a breed of buck that is much harder to kill.

 

Coues bucks should be no different. An incredible amount of hunting pressure over the last 40 years has created a mature buck that is smarter and has habits and behaviors very unlike the bucks of 40 (or maybe even 20?) years ago. Sound improbable? Think about how breeding physical traits into dogs has been successful in a generation or two. How about race horses and cattle? If physical traits can be bred into offspring quickly, why can't mental traits?

 

Anyway, we glassers have adapted our hunting techniques to capitalize on the ever changing behavioral traits of Coues bucks as well as the advancement in technology. And yes, I do hunt big 'ol muleys by glassing/spot & stalk too.

 

Chris Darnell

[Diamondbackaz]

Interesting hypothesis, and I do agree that there are smart big bucks out there that die of old age that shouldn't die that way. However, I believe that hunting pressure and environmental conditions along game managment practices have a lot more to do with it. I believe that there were a lot more deer 50 years ago with a lot less hunters shooting at them. I remember a time when there were always left over white tail tags that were never issued. Now for Mule deer, my dad use to hunt 17A (a heavly wooded area) for many years with his cousin since the 1950's. His cousins uncles have been hunting this area since the 1920's. I once saw an old picture of theirs with two trees holding four deer each. There were at least five other camps near theirs and most everyone in the area got a deer. This came to a screaching halt when the permit system came along. When I went up there with him in the late seventies, our camp was the only one there. I only saw one buck up there the three times I went in there. I came into an area that had so much deer dung on the ground it covered the area like gravel. Why did'nt I see a deer that I knew that were around? There were not enough hunters getting in and getting the deer moved arond. My dad told me that all of the deer he got up there was pushed into him by another hunter. The one buck I did see up there was pushed right into our camp by another hunter, No I didn't get to my gun in time.