Expos for Auction Tags are bad

[javihammer]

Guys,

I went out to the "SFW" Western and Hunting Conservation Expo website and pulled down a list of their exhibitors from this year, I got the list from this link http://www.huntexpo.com/exhibitorList.php. With all the talk about AZSFWC wanting an expo in Phoenix, what better way to know what the impacts would be than to take a look at the exhibitors that participated in the SFW Salt Lake City Expo this year.

 

Many exhibitors had multiple booths in different parts of the expo area. I counted companies rather than booths since counting booths would vastly overstate the actual corporate participation at the expo. After removing duplicates, there were 225 entities on the list to be classified by business type. Here are some interesting statistics.

 

- 48% (107) of the businesses/organizations at the expo were guides/taxidermists (and there were only a handful of taxidermists). Of those, over 63% were either international (Canada 19%/Africa 17%/New Zealand 1%) or from Utah (15%) or Montana (11%). The largest outfitter presence was Mossback from Utah, they had a 1500 square foot booth next to the raffle stage.

 

- The (non-Utah) four corner states outfitters had a TOTAL of 8% of the guides at the SLC expo (Arizona 3%, Colorado 4%, New Mexico 1%). Not much participation from Utah's neighbors.

 

- There were only 11 outdoor retailers, 8 were from Utah, 2 big ones from Alaska and a huge one from Nebraska (Cabelas). Outdoor retailers only comprised 5% of the groups at the expo.

 

-There were 6 non-outdoor retailers, they represented about 3% of the total organizations at the expo. These businesses sold anything from perfume to furniture. Kind of a swap meet kind of thing.

 

- There were 59 outdoor equipment manufacturing businesses at the expo, this represented about 26% of the orgs at the expo. Some big names include Christensen Arms, Hoyt, Browning, Remington. Of the 59 outdoor manufacturers, almost half (25) were from Utah. No other state had more than 6 manufacturing companies represented.

 

- There were 13 non-outdoor manufacturing companies at the expo, this represented 6% of the orgs represented. The products offered varied from artwork to dog food. Since art is produced and sold by the artist, I classified these businesses as a manufacturers.

 

- There were at least 8 groups directly linked to Sportsman For Wildlife (SFW) represented. They accounted for 4% of the total orgs represented but they had far more square footage allocated to them than anyone else.

 

- There were only 8 regular non-SFW related wildlife organizations represented, of this, 6 are based in Utah and only two were outside the state of Utah (Boone and Crockett in Montana and the North American Bear Association in Minnesota). I was surprised to see so few conservation organizations outside of Utah participating at an expo with conservation in the title.

 

- There were twelve organizations that I classified as government. Some were state or federal government but others were native American tribal government. They represented 5% of the total overall orgs.

 

- ISE Expos also had a booth, I thought that seemed strange because I thought they were a competitor of the SFW expos.

 

I was also curious about how much the travel and entertainment would be for businesses and orgs traveling into SLC to exhibit. I assumed there would be an average of 2 people from each organization and that each would spend 3 days in Utah working the expo and spend $200 per day on entertainment/food/travel. I estimated the total impact of the organizational people that traveled out to Utah for the expo to be around $200,000 (this is the gross, not the taxable portion the State of Utah would get...that would be MUCH less).

 

So after looking at this I have come to some conclusions and still have a few questions.

 

1. With nearly half the businesses represented being guides, why would a family pay money to attend an expo like this? My kids would be bored in about 5 minutes if all they had to look at were grip and grin photos and stalking videos. I saw almost nothing for kids.

 

2. How does the state of Utah make money when over one third of the outfitters are actually located outside of the United States (and the majority of the others are outside the State of Utah) . I can see how the non-profit SFW profits by renting booth space, I just don't see how the State of Utah or wildlife benefits from outfitters being hired through this expo.

 

3. With only 8% of the organizations being "retail", how are people at the expo going to spend money? Especially when almost half of the retail businesses are not even outdoor related. How many hotdogs, slushees, camo hats, and antler stickers can one person buy? Especially when there are at least a couple more similar expos every year in the same city.

 

4. Why were there so few outdoor retailers at the SLC expo and why were the few that attended from only 3 states (and one is Cabelas which doesn't really count, the others are from Utah and Alaska). Were outdoor retailers from other states even welcome? If so, why did they decide not to participate?

 

5. Why was so much floor space allocated for promotion of the groups that hosted the expo (MDF/SFW)? Why didn't someone use this space for a fish tank or some other youth engagement activity?

 

6. Were the government booths provided for free in exchange for auction tags? It sure seemed like a bunch of government groups were there, some tribes even had two booths.

 

7. With 26% of the organizations being outdoor gear manufacturers (guns/gear/optics etc), how does all of this add to the bottom line for the State of Utah (or as AZSFWC suggests in Arizona). I challenge the notion that consumers are more inclined to purchase a specific brand because they saw a sign for it at an expo (full of other colorful signs). I view this as a ploy to artificially inflate the "impacts" to cities outside of where the actual expo would be located. For example, it would be like assuming Ruger Firearms (in Prescott Arizona) would exhibit at a Phoenix SFW expo (fat chance SFW) and increase sales which would add to the tax base of Yavapai county. A whole lot of assumptions would be required on that and none would be very credible (sorry Ruger, I know you wouldn't attend such an expo, I just needed an example).

 

8. Why did ISE have a booth? Is it professional courtesy or is the SFW involved in a strategic partnership with them of some kind?

 

9. Why did so few wildlife organizations choose to exhibit at the expo, with the exception of two (B&C and the Bear Org), all the rest are sponsored or affiliates of SFW? Aren't non-SFW wildlife organizations allowed to attend?

 

10. AZSFWC says Arizona would be impacted by 25 million to the positive, my calculations show that to be at least 24, 500, 000 too high.

 

Bottom line, I do not see how the EXPO makes money for anyone other than the SFW. The booths are expensive, space isn't allocated fairly, retail opportunities are of low quality and very limited. There is nothing to lure Average Joes or families. If anything, the raffle and subsequent "hunting license" verification only serves to pad the post-expo numbers for the expo sponsor (which will then be used for more outrageous projections about economic benefits to the state for future expos and more auction tags). The average amount generated by each raffle tag is less than $4,000, which isn't much more than the average value the State would have earned collecting over many years through the fair public drawing.

 

In my opinion, this expo and the one being proposed by Arizona Sportsman For Wildlife makes no sense at all. I don't even think the outfitters that pay big money for the booths are even getting a good deal out of it (since some of their competitors are being strategically placed to have better access to auction bidders). Speaking of auction bidders, most of the big dollar guys bid over the phone through an onsite proxy bidder, the rich guys aren't even onsite to throw their money around....AND...most of these guys have their guide BEFORE they even win the tag. Once again, everyone loses except the wealthy auction winner and the group sponsoring the expo.

 

The 25 million the AZSFWC is claiming will benefit the State of Arizona is a complete fairy tale, a deliberate misrepresentation and lacks substance. When you calculate the fees and lost license revenue (from the raffle), I think the State of Arizona would not only see LESS money but would permanently undermine the motivation for future generations of Arizona hunters to participate in our sport. This expo is a big economic loser for all Arizonan's, not just Arizona Average Joe hunters.

 

I tried to attach my excel file with my numbers but it wouldnt let me. I am willing to support these numbers, after all I got them directly off the SFW expo website...if my analysis is bad it must be the data.

 

Ryan

[elkaholic]

please forward to all representatives and the govenor!!

 

great info . on where the money is! It really isn't much for the state!

[singleshot]

I appreciate the way you laid it all out there so that the " average joe" could interpret it. Even if your numbers are off by a million, a blatant over inflation was declared.

[BML]

Well done.

[runningbird]

good work Ryan!

[DesertBull]

The ISE is the same way. I went twice and it was BORE - ING both times. There is no way those things bring in $25,000,000.

[ASB]

Ryan,

Great post. The reason they have the Expo is for people to come validate the "applications" for the tags they hope they can draw. It's all about the tags, no joke....that is why this thing is out of control now.....huge money generated & KEPT in the sale of those tags!!! I have been to the UT Expo.....I can honestly say, if it was not for the amazing booths Muley Crazy & Mossback have, the AZ ISE show is a better show. Also, to add to your facts.....the UT Expo never did draw out of state tourist's from the outset. So, once they saw the lack of non-resi attendance after the first couple of years...what did they do? They had a "special" draw just for non-resi folk, to lure them to come. All sheep tags back then (POWERFUL LURE!). Guess what...nobody showed in terms of a percentage. By the way, most of the auction guys buy online now....even they aren't putting money in the local economy....why go when you can buy a STRIP tag sitting on the easy chair? This years Expo was the absolute worst in attendance...that is no secret, it was a ghost town. To add further, this proposed Expo will basically draw it's crowd from within a 2 hour drive. Non-residents will be very few. No motels rented, no restaurants filled up, very little gas bought. But, you have those tags that many AZ people will attempt to draw. If they are $5 bucks (like UT) apiece to apply for, many locals will do it (because IT will be the game they have to play if passed)....do the math. All $$$ goes to AZSFW & then they decide to dole it out only after Ronald McDonald does the cost expenses associated with what it took to even put the Expo on.

 

Huh, no money left over for AZG&F. SFW will then be saying thanks for the tags you guys......next time get organized & us boys with the lobby lady won't snooker you again!!

 

Print this & in 5 years look back at it if it gets passed. I would bet these comments will be pretty close & I hate to even think this way. Whole thing makes me sick.

 

 

By the way, here is some crazy math......$23 million proposed revenue, correct?? 350 tags up for grabs, correct?? That equates to $65,700.00 per tag in some sort of revenue. To add to that, the Javelina & turkey (etc) tags have to keep up that average to promote that type of dollars.

 

 

REALLY!!!

[elkaholic]

the way it was explained - the 25 mill isnt expo revenue . only a portion- that was money people would spend - traveling - eating - accomidations etc getting to and from the expos/ banquets where the tags would be the drawing attraction.

 

the tags would probably generate less than 3 million - even if G&F got 30% 900,000. how much of that would be alloted for the programs , that need so much help finacially! Like stated before these bums were just winging / fabricating sums to impress the govenor and legislators,

 

how can they say this county or that county would get 350,000 etc - there is no way to figure what people would be willing to spend .

[Heat]

Bravo Ryan! That was an excellent analysis my friend!

[videoshot]

That's impressive Ryan. You state in such a way that makes it easy to understand. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

[robertramsey61]

I posted this on another site,

 

I think this is all a very bad idea, the way they brought it out the way it is written, everything. Giving this many tags away will flood the market and the price will go down for these big auction tags. This year the deer tag went for 135K, thats a lot to me, but that is 20 K lower than last year and way lower than the year before. If these tags are that sought after by these wealthy people why are the prices going down? Mark it, if they give this many tags and flood the market the deer tag will go under 100K every year. I can think of two ways to make money for conservation with out this EXPO crap, 1) have an Arizona conservation stamp, one price for res and one for non rer. The second is, if they are going to give away more tages, just give one tag per species to generate more money, it would not flood the market and bring upwards of 500k for support and thats with one more per species. They should not auction these tags, they should hold 2 different Super Raffles. One in February and the other in July, that way if will give everyone, thats everyone, the same opportunities for these great tags. I think they should remove all the other raffle tags they want to give out, as that is what hurts the most, getting tags taken from an area that only has 35 or 50 tags hurts bad. The last thing, take away the phone bids, if you want the tag they need to be present, that is the best way to get these guys out and to spend more money. I can only remember one time in the last 3 years I have been to a banquet and the winner of the tag was there, they are almost always on the phone?????