The meeting

[25-06]

Just kinda wonderin what the heck happened at the G&F meeting on Sat. I just read on another site that the G&F didn't count the survey that ADA did cause it wasn't the average hunter that took the survey.....Is that true?

[az4life]

I was told the GF said it was not a random sample therefore not representative.

Interpretation= Not what they wanted to hear to further the AGFD plans/

 

I hope they at least decided to pass out KY at future meetings to make "changes" easier for AZ sportsmen.

 

No, I was not at the meeting. Just hate to be jaded and cynical, but the way this was built up I did not believe this was going any way but what they have planned.

[dave]

This is a good reason for us all to be at as many meetings we can.

[KGAINES]

Ok I went to the meeting, first time I ever have, but I thought that with the changes that were proposed I needed to be there. I sat and watched as the deer proposal was brought up and anyone who had filled out their cards and wanted to speak could. I decided not to speak at that time knowing that the ADA was going to speak and use the survey results to show how AZ hunters felt, worst mistake I have ever made when it comes to me and my hunting future and I will tell you why. First Chris Denham got up and made the ADA presentation whuch included the survey plus some data about the Kaibab, he went step for step through all his points plus question per question on the survey with the findings. I think the first question he was asked by one of the commissioners was if he represented all the members of the ADA or was he just saying that he was representing them ( they asked this question of every speaker who claimed to be a part of a group ), he said he was representing the ADA plus the survey represented what the huning public of AZ wanted, a couple of commissioners decided at that point to disregard the survey and tell us how it was not random therefore it did not represent the 100,000 hunters who applied for deer last year, he then told them that he had talked with an mit student or grad I am not sure , but they stated it was a good survey, the commissioner at that time told him while it may be good it was not scientific, at this point I was pissed off, whether it was scientific or not that survey represented the 6500 hunters who cared the most and who took the time to take the survey. After that quite a few members of various clubs got up and spoke and re-iterated their support for the ADA and the survey, all of which were dismissed without regard, until Dick King of the ABA got up and said that this survey should have as much value as the elk survey. Commissioner Mclellen I think took exception to this and proceeded to tell Mr. King that he didn't listen and he didn't ever listen, chairman melton at that time jumped all over the commision, telling them that he didn't need the survay at all, he knew that the ADA were representing the hunting public and that any time there was work to be done they were the ones doing it, he got an applause during the meeting. It was one of the most frustrating things to set through and watch a five or so people decide for everyone when 6500 don't matter. I didn't stay for the final vote because they had already decided what was the final proposal, they changed some youth hunts, extended the oct. seasons, and kept the archery seasons as they had always been. I think that after this year if you decide that you don't like what happened or are afraid what might happen in the future that you need to show up at these meetings and let them hear you, this was the first time I have ever went, it will not be my last, I will get up and speak and tell them that I represent myself, if I support a group I will let them know that I support them also. If we could have 1/10th of the hunters who took the survey at the meeting we could all speak and let them know that those results are valid, we could each take our three minutes, tell them how you feel, if there were 650 people there wanting to take three minutes each to speak on hunting and the proposals, they would get the messege, it would be a sort of filibuster on our parts, but since they want to know haow these groups represent we ought to show them.

 

I am very sorry for such a long post, I am sorry if I missed something, or misspelled someones name, I am going on memory alone and that might not be best. I think at this time me speaking wouldn't have mattered, but it would have sure made me feel better. It was very nice to meet you Amanda, we are very lucky to have you and the ADA representing the hunting public of Arizona.

 

This is an E-mail I received from the ADA

 

 

 

 

 

Commission Meeting Results

 

 

 

 

 

As announced, the AZ Game and Fish Commission meeting was Saturday, April 22. The Arizona Deer Association presented the results of the Deer Survey that you took part in. An overwhelming majority of the 6,500 hunters that participated in the survey indicated that overall they did not approve of the Departments recommended changes to the deer hunts. Hunters wanted the hunt structures to remain as they were last year.

 

 

 

Unfortunately the Commission was not convinced that 6,500 hunters that participated in the survey represented the views of the "average" hunter. To make things worse, only about 15 to 20 people showed up at the meeting to represent their views on the proposed changes to the deer hunts.

 

 

 

The Commission modified some of the items within the Departments recommendation after requests from the Arizona Deer Association, other sportsmen's groups as well as concerned individuals. They reduced the number of junior's doe permits on the Kaibab from 400 to 100. They also reclassified 300 general antlered deer permits from other hunt units to "junior's hunts" in order to replace the 300 12AW junior's doe permits that were cut. They voted to keep the January archery deer season ending date as January 31 (as it has been). Lastly, they voted to change the October whitetail deer season to be a 6 day season. All other changes that the Department recommended were approved.

 

 

 

It was interesting to note that with the relatively poor turnout by deer hunters, there were about half that many very vocal people from the Earth First and Animal Defense League representing their views. These people individually took the time to stand before the Commission nine separate times to request the elimination of all bighorn sheep, mountain lion, and prairie dog hunting. Fortunately for hunters, the Commission did not take action on these requests (this time).

 

 

 

Below are the actual statistics from the survey. For some reason the bar graph for the first few questions did not duplicate correctly. Look at the actual percentages for the correct statistics.

[couesdiehard]

No joke! 15-20 deer hunters are all that showed heck I guess we got what we deserved. I was feeling under the weather but I should have gone anyway. It makes me ill. I knew they would try to invalidate the survey but come on it's far more scientific than sending those "after the hunt" surveys they send in the mail. I think I am the only fool I know who fills those things out honestly and returns them. I will be looking forward to watching how these rule changes will affect deer hunting in this state. I feel like I let myself, my kids and all my hunting compatriots down. It won't happen again.

Lee

[coues7]

I had my state board exam or I would have been there. I was absolutely blown away that only 20 hunters showed. It is really sad that those ASSHOLES at the AZGFD would pull such a thing, when it was my understanding that they helped the ADA put the survey together. NOT RANDOM AND SCIENTIFIC MY butt! Our hunting future has been and is in SERIOUS jeopardy.....but when you have commisioners and board members like have been appointed what are we to do?

 

SATURDAY APRIL 22, 2006 IS AND WAS A VERY SAD DAY FOR AZ HUNTERS!

 

Scott

[dave]

Keith,

 

I saw you there and Amanda told me who you were. I got side tracked every time I went to go talk to you. Thank you for showing up and it is good to hear your passion for showing up to future meetings. If only every hunter could make one meeting and see what goes on, they would also want to join you in seeing the importance of showing up and voicing your opinion. We are going to get our como sey amo handed to us if we do not get involved and take control.

 

Thanks Keith,

 

Dave

[TwoGuns]

Is there a way that CW members can identify themselves at these meetings? If not, maybe we all ought to chip in and get a pin or something so that we could show some solidarity and maybe have a louder voice with the commission and be more organized. It is too bad that it has come to this, arizona hunters fighting the arizona hunting commission.

[Redman]

After reading the results of the ADA survey, there were very few answers agreed upon. Some results were very close to being even, and some questions with multiple answers are impossible to interpret. One could not set hunt regulations from using the survey.

 

I did not go to the meeting so I have little to complain about. With only 6000 hunters completing the survey and only 20 people showing up at the meeting to voice their opinions, how can anybody fault the Game and Fish?

 

Redman

[Rembrant]

I commend the ADA and all of the people involved in the putting out the survey! You all were doing the right things for the right reasons. We are all very busy it seems, these days, and it ain't easy putting forth that kind of effort on something that is above and beyond all of the normal daily things that we all have committed to doing in our lives.

Thank you!

Hopefully this is just the beginning of what the hunting public can do to make our voice heard.

The problem here isn't the lack of effort from the ADA, nor is it an evil game dept that hates us. The problem is blatetant apathy that plagues our citizens, and it certainly isn't limited to we sportsmen.

So, there is somewhere near 100,000 applicants every year for big game permits, the survey involved 6500 people and 20 citizens showed up at the commission meeting?

If the game dept were to honor the wishes of the ADA with these kinds of numbers, then the dept would be the kind of organization that a lot of folks accuse them to be - Flakey, irresponsible, spineless, etc, etc.

Looks to me like the dept is doing a good job.

What did they NOT go through with?

Archery elk changes

Archery deer changes

Proposed numbers on the new Oct Coues hunts (Doug's letter an influence?), AND they reduced the Kaibab doe permits, AND they shifted those youth tags around the state to accomidate our youth.

These were some of the common sense ideas that came from the people. I like the way things turned out.

And again, I like the way the ADA stepped up to the plate, and again, I hope this is just the beginning of this kind of thing. All that needs to happen is that we spoiled american sportsmen need to realize that the things that have been handed to us in the past will need to be fought for in the future - and not necessarily against the game dept, but against the extremists who will also be pressuring the powers that be.

Thanks to everybody who contributed by providing the survey, filling out the survey, went to the meeting and/or wrote the game dept.

 

Uh... Coues7, perhaps you could be a candidate for an anger management program?

Mike

[KGAINES]

I can look at this a couple of ways, 6,500 of 100,000 is probably a better percentage than we get at most elections and could have been looked at in that way also. The azgfd sent out 44,000 e-mails and the ADA sent out 15,000 paper surveys some of these could have been to the same people, but we can assume that at least 55,000 to 60,000 people got this survey and all we could muster is 6,500 people to take it. I can't see why someone couldn't take a few minutes of their time to fill out a survey that could affect your hunting future, that is unless you don't care, that if you go hunting this year or next oh well, that if your kids don't go hunting, one less thing to worry about, or probably the biggest reasons of all is that we believe that they just can't stop hunting or that somebody else will take care of it for us. The azgfd isn't going to stop hunting that is their biggest source of income, but they can change it for the wrong reasons, money, people complaining about not getting drawn, trying to make the anti's happy too ( lions and prairie dogs ), if we don't like these changes we have to be there to tell them so, not twenty of us, a few hundred would be great, a few thousand and we probably get everything we want hands down. As I have said before this last meeting was the first one I have ever went to, I have filled out the surveys, I have written letters, they can dismiss surveys, they can put thousands of letters in a single box and read only a few, a few hundred hunters standing there wanting to speak probably outweighs all of that, a letter can't talk back, a letter can't express how you truly feel, we need to get people to these meetings and have them explain how they feel. I love to hunt, I really hope my kids do too and I will try to do what I can to keep it that way. Good Luck and God Bless

[coueshunter]

After going to countless commission meetings during the USO fiasco I received an eye and earful of the ways things are run by the commissioners. It truly is important for people to go to the meetings because as I mentioned in other posts, the commissioners think that when ADA speaks its only a select few people regardless of the truth. I think the commissioners should be a voted in position and not appointed. My major fear is that the behind the scenes lobbying is going on between groups like PETA, Biological diversity etc. and the commissioners. I think since someone like Napalitano can appoint whomever she desires, the demographics of the current ruling party "commissioners" will change and the weight/power they hold over AZ wildlife is scary. I am done ranting, but get out and show up for the meetings, be vocal not only on the internet but to AZGFD and demand that the commissioners/Schroufe et al .... behave in an accountable fashion..............Allen Taylor............

[Rembrant]

Allen,

Voted in by who, the general public? They'll screw things up as bad or worse than the governor! Guess who voted in our Governor?

The general public of the great state of Calizona don't hunt. Just a few of us do. Non-hunters are just a TV commercial away from being anti-hunters. And guess what? Anti-hunters give a rat's butt. They'll buy those commercials. Heck they'll go lobby at a commissioner's meeting! Too bad hunters won't! Governor appointed commissioners is a good'ol boy system for sure, but so far it's still working. Just depends on the Governor.

Dang! I write this jokingly, but maybe we could write Ted Nugent and ask him to move here and run for governor. Bet he'd protect our hunting rights and secure the border.

Mike

[az4life]

Nugent for Governor! All the way!

[bobbyo]

Maybe I am ignorant about the commission, but I believe most of the commission was appointed by Republican GOVENORS.The new appointee is obviously unqualified (Govs Girlfriend?), but she could be a blessing in disguise.I think she may actualy listen to hunters more and be more maleable than previous commission people like Chilton/Gilstrap ect who wanted to turn Arizona hunting into New Mexico. Land owner tags, Big cattle ranch etc. etc. The New appointee, Ms. Tree hugger at least states she supports hunting (NRA endorsment) and using actual Biology in Gf policy, which I agree with. Even if it may cost me personally from killing something in these drought years. What we need to do is show our strength at the ballot box and prove by our VOTES that hunting is a legitmate and viable means of keeping our biological diversity . Ted for prez.

 

Bob