Locked gate on state trust land

[vegasjeep]

Bringing this back up a bit. there is a gate off Arivaca rd. that has a lock that has padlocks for BP, Federal wildlife agents and the rancher who has land way back the access rd.

 

The rancher allows and will let you on his property to hunt. The rd crosses the wash that is part of the federal wildlife program therefore locking you off the rd going to leased state land by a rancher who allows you to hunt on it.

 

last year tickets were issued to those trying to get to the land through another access gate that goes right by the federal game officers house that lays between the gate and the ranchers leased land...

 

wish all these could be changed... they are locking stuff they have no right too.

[BASS]

Good info! We had something similar happen on a deer hunt in the Douglas area where the map showed the road on State or BLM but the gate was locked. We spoke to a local that was parked at the gate trying to figure why it was locked....anyway he said he and his buddies were going to teach the rancher a lesson by...no need repeating how!

 

And we all wonder way we lose access!

 

 

 

Sounds a lot like the Mercer situation. Two years before access was yanked the lady was complaining about trash being dumped all over their property, and cross country drivers. Funny, the trash couldn't have been hunters, it was all washing machines, fridges, and meth labs! We all still lost out though.

[Str8Shot]

I have seen many state here that our Hunting License is our permit for State Trust Land Use, and this is a half truth... While out in state trust land 2 years ago my brother and I were stopped. According to the officer and confirmed by talking to state trust land officials the permit is valid when actively hunting. This simply means if you are on state trust land you better have your license and your gun and state that you are hunting (at least coyotes). If not you can be cited for trespass. Just figured I would share this reminder since the subject is state trust land.

[Elkhunter1]

I have seen many state here that our Hunting License is our permit for State Trust Land Use, and this is a half truth... While out in state trust land 2 years ago my brother and I were stopped. According to the officer and confirmed by talking to state trust land officials the permit is valid when actively hunting. This simply means if you are on state trust land you better have your license and your gun and state that you are hunting (at least coyotes). If not you can be cited for trespass. Just figured I would share this reminder since the subject is state trust land.

 

That points out the Grey area in the law. The sign only states a hunting/fishing license is required for permission to gain access. It doesn't state you have to be actively hunting or fishing.

[Arizona Griz]

I have seen many state here that our Hunting License is our permit for State Trust Land Use, and this is a half truth... While out in state trust land 2 years ago my brother and I were stopped. According to the officer and confirmed by talking to state trust land officials the permit is valid when actively hunting. This simply means if you are on state trust land you better have your license and your gun and state that you are hunting (at least coyotes). If not you can be cited for trespass. Just figured I would share this reminder since the subject is state trust land.

 

That points out the Grey area in the law. The sign only states a hunting/fishing license is required for permission to gain access. It doesn't state you have to be actively hunting or fishing.

 

The sign says written permission.

 

Check the state website. All the information is there.

[Str8Shot]

I have seen many state here that our Hunting License is our permit for State Trust Land Use, and this is a half truth... While out in state trust land 2 years ago my brother and I were stopped. According to the officer and confirmed by talking to state trust land officials the permit is valid when actively hunting. This simply means if you are on state trust land you better have your license and your gun and state that you are hunting (at least coyotes). If not you can be cited for trespass. Just figured I would share this reminder since the subject is state trust land.

 

That points out the Grey area in the law. The sign only states a hunting/fishing license is required for permission to gain access. It doesn't state you have to be actively hunting or fishing.

 

The sign says written permission.

 

Check the state website. All the information is there.

 

From the official web site http://www.land.state.az.us/support/faqs.htm

 

"Q: Why do I need a permit to go on State Trust land for recreation purposes and how do I obtain a recreational permit?

 

Arizona State Trust lands are not "public lands", as are Federal lands under the management of the U.S. Forest Service or the Bureau of Land Management. Federal "public lands" are managed for the benefit and use of the public, while State Trust lands are managed for the benefit of 13 Trust beneficiaries, which include the public schools and prisons. The Land Department's trust management responsibilities include requiring a permit or lease and charging a fee for use of Trust land. Exceptions to this requirement are licensed hunters and fishers, actively pursuing game or fish, in-season, and certain archaeological activities permitted by the Arizona State Museum."

 

So this means if you are scouting state trust land you better be hunting coyotes too

[Elkhunter1]

I have seen many state here that our Hunting License is our permit for State Trust Land Use, and this is a half truth... While out in state trust land 2 years ago my brother and I were stopped. According to the officer and confirmed by talking to state trust land officials the permit is valid when actively hunting. This simply means if you are on state trust land you better have your license and your gun and state that you are hunting (at least coyotes). If not you can be cited for trespass. Just figured I would share this reminder since the subject is state trust land.

 

That points out the Grey area in the law. The sign only states a hunting/fishing license is required for permission to gain access. It doesn't state you have to be actively hunting or fishing.

 

The sign says written permission.

 

Check the state website. All the information is there.

You are absolutely right, when you have a hunting or fishing license in hand you have written permission. This post was about locking gates not whether you have permission anyway.

[Str8Shot]

I have seen many state here that our Hunting License is our permit for State Trust Land Use, and this is a half truth... While out in state trust land 2 years ago my brother and I were stopped. According to the officer and confirmed by talking to state trust land officials the permit is valid when actively hunting. This simply means if you are on state trust land you better have your license and your gun and state that you are hunting (at least coyotes). If not you can be cited for trespass. Just figured I would share this reminder since the subject is state trust land.

 

That points out the Grey area in the law. The sign only states a hunting/fishing license is required for permission to gain access. It doesn't state you have to be actively hunting or fishing.

 

The sign says written permission.

 

Check the state website. All the information is there.

You are absolutely right, when you have a hunting or fishing license in hand you have written permission. This post was about locking gates not whether you have permission anyway.

 

A hunting license and gun in hand hunting gives you permission , but state trust land is not public land and is explained in the last post I made... You all need to go to the official Az state trust land web site if you want to educate yourselves on why some gates may be locked ... not saying it is fair or right but it is what it is

[Arizona Griz]

I have seen many state here that our Hunting License is our permit for State Trust Land Use, and this is a half truth... While out in state trust land 2 years ago my brother and I were stopped. According to the officer and confirmed by talking to state trust land officials the permit is valid when actively hunting. This simply means if you are on state trust land you better have your license and your gun and state that you are hunting (at least coyotes). If not you can be cited for trespass. Just figured I would share this reminder since the subject is state trust land.

 

That points out the Grey area in the law. The sign only states a hunting/fishing license is required for permission to gain access. It doesn't state you have to be actively hunting or fishing.

 

The sign says written permission.

 

Check the state website. All the information is there.

 

From the official web site http://www.land.state.az.us/support/faqs.htm

 

"Q: Why do I need a permit to go on State Trust land for recreation purposes and how do I obtain a recreational permit?

 

Arizona State Trust lands are not "public lands", as are Federal lands under the management of the U.S. Forest Service or the Bureau of Land Management. Federal "public lands" are managed for the benefit and use of the public, while State Trust lands are managed for the benefit of 13 Trust beneficiaries, which include the public schools and prisons. The Land Department's trust management responsibilities include requiring a permit or lease and charging a fee for use of Trust land. Exceptions to this requirement are licensed hunters and fishers, actively pursuing game or fish, in-season, and certain archaeological activities permitted by the Arizona State Museum."

 

So this means if you are scouting state trust land you better be hunting coyotes too

 

Or have a recreational permit.

[Elkhunter1]

I have seen many state here that our Hunting License is our permit for State Trust Land Use, and this is a half truth... While out in state trust land 2 years ago my brother and I were stopped. According to the officer and confirmed by talking to state trust land officials the permit is valid when actively hunting. This simply means if you are on state trust land you better have your license and your gun and state that you are hunting (at least coyotes). If not you can be cited for trespass. Just figured I would share this reminder since the subject is state trust land.

 

That points out the Grey area in the law. The sign only states a hunting/fishing license is required for permission to gain access. It doesn't state you have to be actively hunting or fishing.

 

The sign says written permission.

 

Check the state website. All the information is there.

 

From the official web site http://www.land.stat...upport/faqs.htm

 

"Q: Why do I need a permit to go on State Trust land for recreation purposes and how do I obtain a recreational permit?

 

Arizona State Trust lands are not "public lands", as are Federal lands under the management of the U.S. Forest Service or the Bureau of Land Management. Federal "public lands" are managed for the benefit and use of the public, while State Trust lands are managed for the benefit of 13 Trust beneficiaries, which include the public schools and prisons. The Land Department's trust management responsibilities include requiring a permit or lease and charging a fee for use of Trust land. Exceptions to this requirement are licensed hunters and fishers, actively pursuing game or fish, in-season, and certain archaeological activities permitted by the Arizona State Museum."

 

So this means if you are scouting state trust land you better be hunting coyotes too

 

Well i am always hunting rabits or something anyway.

[hawkeye]

If you are really serious about pursuing the problem, then file a claim in small claims court, for loss of revenue. The price of gas alone would be enough. You probably won't win but they would have to take the time to address the law suit.

[Elkhunter1Jr]

lets wait for G&F to finnish the investigation.

[Elkhunter1]

I just got back from working in Sierra Vista. I decided to stop and check on the locked gate. Well it's still locked. There is a new lock from AT&T and the Kinder Morgan lock is gone. And now for the cou-de-graw------- some body took the State Trust Sign off of the gate. NOW WHO WOULD DO THAT? I left a message with Matt Walton. I have yet to get any correspondence on the subject since I first contacted AZGFD.

 

 

 

[trophyhnter]

If you are really serious about pursuing the problem, then file a claim in small claims court, for loss of revenue. The price of gas alone would be enough. You probably won't win but they would have to take the time to address the law suit.

 

 

Interesting thought! I dont know much about the law but if there was a loss of revenue then them must be a cause for that loss and it still seems as if there is a gray area in the word "managing". "....while State Trust lands are managed for the benefit of 13 Trust beneficiaries, which include the public schools and prisons. The Land Department's trust management responsibilities include requiring a permit or lease and charging a fee for use of Trust land..." First thought, the 13 Trust beneficiaries does not include hunters as a group as per the following "State Trust Land is distinguished from the public land such as parks or national forests because all uses of the land must benefit the 13 Trust beneficiaries. Congress, in granting the State Trust Land, recognized the value of the land and the importance of providing support to the public schools and public institutions...." and the Annual Report - Fiscal Year 2009-2010 http://www.land.state.az.us/beneficiaries.htm . So if the state department deems it is in the best interest of the 13 trusties by locking gates to allow certain permitted groups that have paid fees for access then can? Second thought (Im stretching it), hunters paid a fee for their hunting license that permits access to state land and if some portion of the fees benefits the 13 trusties (not sure this matters since hunting license equals access independent of the fee), then I would claim the land department has numerous policies and practices which give big companies privileges not afforded the rest of the public. And just for good measure and raise some heads I would say that the state lands is in voilation of Arizona Constitution and federal Enabling Act by not managing for the highest and best use (ie, hunters that have near zero impact on the land). After we paid a fee! Pulled all this out of my butt!!!!!

[Elkhunter1]

If you are really serious about pursuing the problem, then file a claim in small claims court, for loss of revenue. The price of gas alone would be enough. You probably won't win but they would have to take the time to address the law suit.

 

 

Interesting thought! I dont know much about the law but if there was a loss of revenue then them must be a cause for that loss and it still seems as if there is a gray area in the word "managing". "....while State Trust lands are managed for the benefit of 13 Trust beneficiaries, which include the public schools and prisons. The Land Department's trust management responsibilities include requiring a permit or lease and charging a fee for use of Trust land..." First thought, the 13 Trust beneficiaries does not include hunters as a group as per the following "State Trust Land is distinguished from the public land such as parks or national forests because all uses of the land must benefit the 13 Trust beneficiaries. Congress, in granting the State Trust Land, recognized the value of the land and the importance of providing support to the public schools and public institutions...." and the Annual Report - Fiscal Year 2009-2010 http://www.land.stat...neficiaries.htm . So if the state department deems it is in the best interest of the 13 trusties by locking gates to allow certain permitted groups that have paid fees for access then can? Second thought (Im stretching it), hunters paid a fee for their hunting license that permits access to state land and if some portion of the fees benefits the 13 trusties (not sure this matters since hunting license equals access independent of the fee), then I would claim the land department has numerous policies and practices which give big companies privileges not afforded the rest of the public. And just for good measure and raise some heads I would say that the state lands is in voilation of Arizona Constitution and federal Enabling Act by not managing for the highest and best use (ie, hunters that have near zero impact on the land). After we paid a fee! Pulled all this out of my butt!!!!!

 

Sounds pretty good so far, I guess I could also say that, by not allowing hunters to access the area by way of the locked gate they (land Dept.) are forcing hunters to put themselves into harms way by forcing them to access the area from the interstate therefore substantially adding risk of a collision. Now I know from past experiences DPS would be "up-in-arms" over this situation.