Locked gate on state trust land

[Benbrown]

State Trust Lands are not public land, per se. I know that seems illogical, but especially in Arizona and New Mexico, their primary purpose is to produce revenue for the public schools. Unlike National Forest and BLM lands, there is no requirement that they be managed for multiple use. Even when the state wildlife agency contracts with the State Land Office for access during open hunting seasons, they can still be closed to trespass if access by the public would compromise the fiduciary return to the state. Leases often do stipulate that public access is not permitted. For a start, check out this source:

 

http://ti.org/statetrusts.html

[Elkhunter1]

Criminal damage has to be above 200.00. Pretty sure the lock doesnt cost that. Also would not be trespassing if it was state trust land. So not sure what law would apply here. I am asking if there is a separate law for cutting a locked gate.

 

 

Criminal damage is defined as

A. A person commits criminal damage by recklessly :

 

1. Defacing or damaging property of another person; or

2. Tampering with property of another so as to substantially impair its function or value; or

3. Tampering with the property of a utility.

4. Parking any vehicle in such a manor as to deprive livestock of access to the only reasonably available water.

B. Criminal damage is punished as follows:

1. Criminal damage is a class 4 felony if the person recklessly damages property of another in the amount of ten thousand dollars or more, or if the person recklessly causes impairment of the functioning of any utility.

2. Criminal damage is a class 5 felony if the person recklessly damages property of another in the amount of two thousand dollars or more but less than ten thousand dollars.

3 Criminal damage is a class 6 felony if the person recklessly damages property of another in the amount of more than two hundred and fifty dollars but less than two thousand dollars.

4. In all other cases criminal damage is a class 2 misdemeanor.

 

 

 

This definition is from my old law book Arizona Criminal And Traffic Law Manual 1994-95 edition.

[Elkhunter1]

A little while ago I received a call from AZGFD and was advised the agent that works the unit in question would be investigating and getting back to me with the results as soon as the investigation was completed. This response from our state agencies is exactly the response I had hoped for, not the cold shoulder we get from other agencies. This in part is due to Amanda's help in getting this info to the right people. Thanks Amanda!!!

[Pine Donkey]

Years ago, when I was a young boy, I was out hunting with my grandfather when we came across a locked gate on public land. He was upset, and cussed the rancher by name. I suggested that we shoot off the lock and go in, but he was not interested in pushing the issue. He just got out of his old scout, took the toothpick from his mouth, and jammed it into the keyhole.

As we drove off, he explained that the locked gate made him mad, but it makes him feel a bit better to picture the rancher ( he called him by first name) cutting off his own lock. Maybe his helped me develop a love of irony.

[DesertBull]

Criminal damage is defined as

A. A person commits criminal damage by recklessly :

 

1. Defacing or damaging property of another person; or

2. Tampering with property of another so as to substantially impair its function or value; or

 

So, it IS a crime for someone to jack with my camera or tree stand even if it is on public property.

 

Thanks for the info.

[Elkhunter1]

Criminal damage is defined as

A. A person commits criminal damage by recklessly :

 

1. Defacing or damaging property of another person; or

2. Tampering with property of another so as to substantially impair its function or value; or

 

So, it IS a crime for someone to jack with my camera or tree stand even if it is on public property.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

You just have to get the jurisdictional agency to agree with you. Remember fed laws overrule some state laws.

[Elkhunter1]

criminal damage under 200 is not enforceable, might be a misdemeanor, but so is adultery. Certain laws arent enforced from a law enforcement perspective. Most cases of criminal damage that are small amounts end up in small claims court (civil), where they belong.

 

That statement wouldn't apply to a department that enforces the laws of the state. The law is very clear! If you want to go a step further the definition of burglary can be stretched way out of proportion. Are you stating this with experience from a law enforcement perspective?

[Elkhunter1]

Yes.

 

OK down here people still get arrested for criminal damage under 250, they might not "GO" to jail but cited and released.

[Hunterjohnny]

criminal damage under 200 is not enforceable, might be a misdemeanor, but so is adultery. Certain laws arent enforced from a law enforcement perspective. Most cases of criminal damage that are small amounts end up in small claims court (civil), where they belong.

 

That statement wouldn't apply to a department that enforces the laws of the state. The law is very clear! If you want to go a step further the definition of burglary can be stretched way out of proportion. Are you stating this with experience from a law enforcement perspective?

 

I think that condoning this publicly puts a bad face on us (sportsmen) and cant beleive that we would post we think this is the right way to handle it. And trying to put a $ amount on what morals will be enforced is weak. Apparently there are many factors here that we, or at least I, never realized. I am grateful for the thread to learn the correct process and situations it might be locked. But being in law enforcement you certainly arent saying if it its not enforced it ok, are you?

[Hunterjohnny]

No i am trying to say the woman on the phone was using "scare tactics" by saying he would be arrested for cutting a lock. I cant stand when people say stuff like that. Lets not get started on what someone "could" be arrested for. Ever drive over 85 mph? Arrested!!!

 

Then I misunderstood you and apologize, that is not how I read it. Thats the problem with the internet, really easy to missread.

And 85 should be arrested but I am getting old and scared I guess.

[luvdemcoues]

I know specifically of a case where some ranchers got the county prosecutor to press charges against a guy for cutting locks and entering state trust land on which the ranchers had a state land lease. The guy lost, had to pay restitution to the ranchers and got community service. Do not cut locks. Those ranchers were later reported to the appropriate agency and were forced to remove the locks. Interesting.

[CouesWhitetail]

Thanks to the State Land Trust Dept for calling me and providing this information for me to post to help everyone with these issues. AGFD is working to get their policy out so I can post that as well. Apparently AGFD is the lead agency to investigate locked gates and they are investigating this particular locked gate reported in this thread. AGFD encourages hunters to report locked gates blocking hunter access on public or state trust land. Please note, I blacked out the location of the gate so as to draw attention to this hunting spot.

 

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Good infomative thread.......I would never cut a lock, just doesn't seem quite right even if the person who put the lock on there did it illegally.

I have been kicked off of a couple of ranches in the past, nothing posted, no locks. And it isn't fun not being able to get where you thought you were going.

Better to be informed and do it right than to turn myself criminal.

Thanks for the information.

[AZLance]

Super glue usually does the trick.

[Elkhunter1]

Good infomative thread.......I would never cut a lock, just doesn't seem quite right even if the person who put the lock on there did it illegally.

I have been kicked off of a couple of ranches in the past, nothing posted, no locks. And it isn't fun not being able to get where you thought you were going.

Better to be informed and do it right than to turn myself criminal.

Thanks for the information.

 

 

This was my intention from the start. My dad was The Chief Hunting instructor when I was younger. He always said "if you do things the right way you almost always get what you are working towards!" He also said " even if you don't get what you want, you can still sleep at nite when you go about it the right way!" This man pounded it into his kids heads, do things the legal way not the "BONEHEAD" way. All three of his boys are successful law abiding citizens who love this country and the freedom to hunt and fish.

 

 

I talked at length this afternoon with the G&F on the specifics of my complaint and was assured they would be out to the area and complete a very through investigation and give the results as soon as possible.

 

Without Amanda's help with this situation I believe I wouldn't have as much response or as much info as I do have. Thanks again Amanda!