Need more green ones (good guys)....who will be next?

[CouesWhitetail]

That's ok. Now I see how it is. Guys can threaten to kill me on here but I can't tell the truth without it getting it deleted. Guess maybe there is a double standard. Always thought there was. Now I know. Lark.

 

and when were death threats posted on here?

[Heat]

Cast Dispersions? Not really sure what that means. I think I learned about dispersions in Physics class or something. Now if you meant cast aspersions, that was not my intention and I'm sorry if you feel that way. We can agree to disagree on how we go about things, but remember we're on the same team here.

 

Nick

[CouesWhitetail]

Ok, just so you all know, the forum software logs all the actions taken, so whenever a post is deleted by a member or a moderator it lists the action taken, the time, date, and post id number. The forum log shows that you deleted your own post Lark. I am assuming you did it by accident. Perhaps because the edit button and delete button are right next to each other. Or perhaps it was some fluke in the software. I don't really know, but I do know that your post was not deleted by myself or any other moderator. There is nothing in the post that needed moderation anyway, which is why it surprises me that you would even think it was moderated.

[javihammer]

Anyone can redeem themselves and become a good guy but I don't think this letter from Chris Denham gets the job done.

 

•He didn't condemn the concept of HB 2072, only the way it was introduced.

•He didn't separate himself (resign from the board) of AZSFW

•He didn't make any statements separating him or the businesses he is part of from SFW (example - Outdoorsmans had 3 booths at the SLC expo this year - a strong statement that these businesses will not be there next year would be a big step into good guy territory)

•He criticized auction tags and then praised them (and made comments suggesting they were inevitable - an SFW trick)

•He made statements that were critical of AZGFD and how they manage their license revenue (also typical of SFW propaganda)

•He didn't condemn the idea of private expos being funded by auction and raffle tags owned by the public

•He said he was putting the letter out to let everyone "know the score". That's great, unfortunately no details were shared about his plan of action.

 

Not to sound like a hater but I feel his letter was more of a PR move (mostly on behalf of the AZSFW) than an apology. Although Chris's letter is presented as a rambling apology it is very carefully worded. Like everyone else that is complicit in this seven year long scheme to take tags from the public, Chris provided his resume and no details about the actions he plans to take to deal with the damage he helped cause. Unless he actively participates in cleaning up the mess and removing the AZSFW he will never be considered a good guy in the eyes of the public. He needs to take action if he wants to get back on the good guy list, a letter with no action items isn't going to cut it. Forgiveness is possible but Chris needs to take ownership and action to do his part.

 

Guys, we arent out of the woods on the HB 2072 thing yet. We need to keep up the pressure and keep our bootheel in the throat of the forces that are trying to destroy opportunity for our kids. Chris's letter is a clear indication to me that there are some at AZSFW that think the organization has a future, we need to keep pushing until the bad orgs are not only gone but the funding mechanism for them is also gone. We are in round two of a ten round fight. Keep sending updates to legislators, remind retailors that their affiliations with groups that take advantage of the public is wrong and will be bad for business. If you are a member of a an organization with ties to AZSFW, ask your board why they havent taken a stand, it is your right to know. The amount of money AZSFW has for grants is very very small, unless someone in your organization is planning for some kind of HB 2072 windfall, there is almost no reason why your group should have anything to do with AZSFW right now. As someone said in a previous post, the AZSFW is TOXIC.

 

Ryan

[Bugler]

I'm not going to crucify Chris. I've known him to be a decent guy. However that being said anyone involved in this bill being attempted the way it was did so for a reason. Are we all to believe that the emergency legislation was attempted because an anti hunting org is at the door and we face losing it all tomorrow morning?

No. Is our way of life under attack all the time? Yes . That's why we have a legislature and folks like norm freeman in the commission.

To keep watch at their level and let us know when it's time to raise holy heck with those In office .

Chris has done a lot of great things for wildlife here. I do not know his reasons for supporting the bill but I will say this about people involved deeply. Sometimes influence,wealth, notoriety and even ego can cause people to do things that they wouldn't normally do had they taken some time to think it out and realize the consequences. As I've said before. Az is a different state and the folks here are a tad more passionate about their hunting.

After USO I think the sportsmen and women here are not gonna stand for ANY tag grab. You wanna ask for a few maybe you get em but there's no chance in the pit of hades that anyone will get them by deception or hidden agendas.

We must ALL work together within our orgs to raise the money to be effective in conservation and that means working with azgfd as well. We may have experience some type of pain in our efforts as with any growth. But not what the sfw tried to do.

Chris I will be honest, in order to make a very strong statement is to leave out the guesswork. Something like this. Although I believed conceptually with the ideas involved in the bill I cannot support the sfw nor the board of directors any longer due to the extremely negative way in which this bill was tried to be introduced. I realize now that to have done that was a betrayal of the sportsmen and women of AZ.

That would've left all with no doubt where you stood bud.

I hope we as AZ sportspeople can overcome all of this later when it's for sure dead and buried. There are still issues for us to face. We need to work together to solve them. Thanks

My .02

[nohoch]

I spoke with my cousin who is a reporter for channel 12 news and game him the Cliff Notes version of what's going on and he thought it was a great topic for a story on the news. I know enough about the HB2072 and roughly who are people are behind it to make myself feel like I'm dangerous, but I don't know enough to give him the facts and details. If you've been involved and know details, names, etc.. and would be willing to speak with him, please PM me your information and I'll pass it along to my cousin.

 

Hopefully this could provide the spotlight that we've all been trying to shine on AZSFW and this proposed bill.

 

Greg

[.270]

amanda, i delelted my own post? how do you do that? i posted it, then reread it after it came up. that i know of i never went to any screen that had a delete button on it. whatever. if i deleted it, i apologize for thinking badly of anyone. still don't see how it happened. i fired up my laptop tonight so i can see what i'm doing. been useing an iphone while out of town. when i get a chance i'll call you and splain some other things.

 

heat, i can agree we are on the same team. and the game we're playing may be at halftime at best and we're behind by a few points and we don't have the ref's (politicians, the gov, rich guys that "own" the other team, etc) on our side. and if we win it will probably be on a hail mary or a field goal at the final gun. that's how tight this game is and it is for all the marbles. if we win, we can fight some more another day. but we will have to keep fighting. if they win, it's over. we're done. it won't be long until all tags will be for who has the most money. read what don peay, the guy who started all this stuff, says about the public owning wildlife. and i don't care what sfw says, he is a player in this too. anyway, so here we are in this tight game, at maybe halftime, playing our guts out, and one of the starters from the other team wants to quit and be on our side? he may not be the quarterback, but a starter. sounds a little funny to me. funny that all the sudden he wants to change sides during the game and funny that you would be willing to let him play for us. this pops up a lotta flags to me. like why won't he stick it out with the team he chose? why does he wanna be on our team now? he ain't playin' on my team. if denham is your friend, fine. i really don't care. outside of the issue of this bill, i couldn't care less about him. i don't need to read magazines or watch tv shows. they aren't important to me. but he knew about this stuff a long time before any of us did and he was blocking for it from the get go. the only reason he wants to swap jerseys is because it has hurt his business. and him and buncha other guides were already counting the money they planned on reaping from the tags that were going to be stolen from joe hunter. if he is truly serious about coming back on the side with the good guys, he needs to be a lot more forceful in his repudiation of 2072 and the folks that thunk it up. ryan's post pretty much sums up how i feel. he did a great job. i would bet that he had permission from his sfw bosses to turncoats. this is a real serious game, or should be, to anyone who can't afford to buy permits for 6 figures. and personally, i don't want anyone who was on the other team during the first half, on my team for the rest of the game. can you see my point. and if you want to give me english lessons, that's Bill Q's job. Lark.

[elkaholic]

what ever happened to the ADA sending out immediate emails to members to find out how they vote on supporting azsfw -

Have any member even gotten an email - they do not want to withdraw! stall stall stall -

 

They are delighted we get distracted !

[Bugler]

They're going to have a meeting soon I'm sure folks will know soon what's up. At least I hope so. I do know the meeting will be about 2072 stuff though.

[javihammer]

New BRIGHTER colors coming soon - stay tuned!

[SNORT]

OK, people these blog posts are getting out of hand.

First, you have taken it upon yourself to determine who and what groups have the wildlife and sportsmen’s best interest in mind. You all are self proclaimed champions of the Arizona Sportsmen and their voice. What makes you different than AZSFW? You claim to be the majority voice of sportsmen in the state. Between all 20 or so of you that are active participants in the Political Discussion Blog topic of this site, you represent .0037643% of the membership of Coueswhitetail.com. I’ll let you figure out what that equates to on a statewide level.

 

I would ask you what organizations that are part of or have been part of the AZSFWC (the UN of AZ Conservation Organizations) are you up to date paid members of?

 

How many meetings, banquets, fundraising events, captures, work projects, habitat development, or water catchment projects have been involved with?

 

How much of your hard earned time, money, blood, sweat, stress and family time have you sacrificed for the betterment of wildlife, sportsmen of the state of Arizona and our future generations.

 

The organizations and people that you name are the backbone of what diminishing opportunities we have left as sportsmen.

 

If you have an issue with the true champions of Sportsmen for the State of Arizona then, get out from behind your computer where it is safe. Join a few organizations, attend meetings, get dirty in the hunting off season, and make an investment in the future of the sport and lifestyle that we enjoy. Become a champion yourself! Not, only for your interests but for those of our children.

 

What’s the worst that could happen?

 

Blog’s don’t change policy, being in attendance for the lifestyle we all enjoy will though.

 

And, just for the record I don’t like the way this whole HB 2072 debacle went down. It was handled in a terrible manner. But, wake up to the very real issues that we are facing.

These people are not your enemies, The Center, Sierra Club, Sandy Barr, HSUS, Jennifer Martin and long list of others are the ones we are up against.

 

So, my question to you is, what are you going to do about it?

 

Get carpel tunnel or join the ones you are chastising to help preserve our future as sportsmen.

[azpackhorse]

These forums are a great way to comminicate with a lot of sportsman, I believe that if it weren't for forums like this that HB2072 would've breezed right by us so your hating on the blogspots is ridiculous.

 

Just because everyone doesn't get on here and participate in these discussions doesn't mean that they don't participate in the matters at hand, the overwhelming outpouring of support to defeat HB2072 is a absolute proof of that and it is my belief that would never have occurred without this and other similar hunting forums.

 

There is, however, others that will get on here (with their first post)and try to stirr us up and take away our focus, which is exactly what I think you are doing SNORT

[40-year-AZ-hunter]

Get carpel tunnel or join the ones you are chastising to help preserve our future as sportsmen.

 

Sir,

 

I just returned from the G&F Commission meeting this morning where this topic was discussed at length. I got up and spoke my piece as did others. Were you there and did you speak? If not, I'm not sure you have any right to tell others how to conduct their affairs.

 

If you send me a PM with your phone number, I'll be happy to discuss it with you, but I bet you will not do that. If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to correct the record.

 

Bruce Johnson

[Ringer]

And therin lies the problem. You say the "true" champions of Arizona hunting but I suppose that excludes those of us who have donated time and sweat to G&F projects and have fought off USO and now are working to bury the AZSFW organization. To me they are just as big a threat as any other group that wants to impact the ability fo my G&F department to function on the behalf of all Arizona sportsmen. I joined the AES and will be at their banquet because they did the right thing. I have donated thousands over the years to RMEF as well. You are arrogant.

[krp]

I would ask you what organizations that are part of or have been part of the AZSFWC (the UN of AZ Conservation Organizations) are you up to date paid members of?

Absolutely none and on purpose, no one can spend my money as efficient.

 

How many meetings, banquets, fundraising events, captures, work projects, habitat development, or water catchment projects have been involved with?

 

Besides the captures which I have none... more than most who belong to an org.

 

How much of your hard earned time, money, blood, sweat, stress and family time have you sacrificed for the betterment of wildlife, sportsmen of the state of Arizona and our future generations.

 

I can win that one also.

 

The organizations and people that you name are the backbone of what diminishing opportunities we have left as sportsmen.

 

The backbone of opportunities are the families that have no idea what we are talking about, they take their kids outdoors, hunting is one part of it. They buy the licenses and hunting equipment which generates the 11% Pittman-Robertson excise tax...

 

1937 The Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Act, also known as the Pittman-Robertson Act... 1972 An 11% Pittman-Robertson excise tax was extended to archery equipment with the passage of the Goodling-Moss Act. One-half of the tax revenue collected on handguns and archery equipment may be used by state fish and wildlife agencies for hunter safety training and range development.

 

The foundation of true funding of wildlife come from the hundreds of thousands of hunters and shooters... you want to talk about a low percentage, the paid members compared to those numbers.

 

If you have an issue with the true champions of Sportsmen for the State of Arizona then, get out from behind your computer where it is safe. Join a few organizations, attend meetings, get dirty in the hunting off season, and make an investment in the future of the sport and lifestyle that we enjoy. Become a champion yourself! Not, only for your interests but for those of our children.

 

Fairly condescending in you don't know who you are addressing.

 

What’s the worst that could happen?

 

Someone could marginalize the majority of hunters that make a difference and keep our passion alive in future generations?

 

As long as special interests fund themselves, get'er done... but as soon as they demand the public to fund their minority interests because the majority won't listen to them and volunteer... that's not democracy, that's elitism.

 

Kent