Need more green ones (good guys)....who will be next?

[40-year-AZ-hunter]

Can someone post a compiled list of organizations that are officially against HB2072? I would like to send an email to my legislator and would like to add the organizations that are against it.

 

I'll take a stab at summarizing the list that Javi started this thread with and others can add to it or correct me if I have something wrong. In no particular order,

 

Arizona Elk Society

Arizona Game and Fish Commission

Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation

Arizona Wildlife Federation

Yuma Valley Rod and Gun Club

Arizona Bowhunters Association

Coconino Sportsmen

National Wild Turkey Federation - Az

Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society

 

 

Bruce

[BuzzH]

rthrbhntng,

 

 

 

I noticed this quote from you "The ones I talked to today had the AZSFW fact sheet in their hands when we were talking.

 

Thats not a "fact" sheet, its called a whitepaper and is a common lobbying tool. Those WP's are written with a clear agenda, and the "facts" found in them are only as accurate as the group/lobbying firm that produces same.

 

I've lobbied in D.C. a couple times and thats the MO that just about any group uses, and frankly it should be one that sportsmen and also sporting groups should/better be using.

 

Its fine to call, but if everyone has the time, just type up a simple, accurate whitepaper and hand it to your representatives. Its best done via making an appointment with your state reps before hand. Hand them the white paper and explain what is stated in the content. Be professional, be concise, be accurate, be truthful...dont argue, dont whine. Let SFW/Gilstrap choke on the real facts.

 

Get organized and call Gilstrap/AZSFW's bluff...and be sure to point out the lies in their whitepaper. Theres no question that AZSFW/Gilstrap lobbying has pulled all the stops for one last push.

 

Time to drive the wooden stake into the heart of 2072.

 

Wish I was a Resident of Arizona...

 

Good luck and I hope things go right and HB2072 is done away with.

[runningbird]

BuzzH, I wish you were a resident as well. Most of us are just shooting in the dark. We are working hard but not always in the most efficient way.

[runningbird]

Ryan, You need to add your name to the GREEN list. All the legislators have a copy of your report. Great work!

[dobbs07]

Maybe I missed it, but where does CEI Outdoors, stand on this? I noticed they are an active poster on this and other forums, and I visit their blog often, but I don't recall seeing which side they're on?

[CouesWhitetail]

Maybe I missed it, but where does CEI Outdoors, stand on this? I noticed they are an active poster on this and other forums, and I visit their blog often, but I don't recall seeing which side they're on?

 

Craig has posted that he does not support the bill.

[AzHuntingAddict]

I got an email back from Representative Kate Brophy McGee for district 11, and this was her response.

"I do not support this bill, and if it comes back I will not vote for it"

 

She is the Vice Chairman of House of Representatives Standing Committee, for Energy and Natural Resources.

[dobbs07]

Thanks! I am glad to hear that. I wonder if he could put something on his blog to help get the word out?

[Lucky]

Just to clarify...... The Hunt Of A Lifetime Foundation does not enter into any political action or stance for, or against legislation, my decision to withdraw our affiliation was based on this alone. Our sole and only mission is to grant hunting and fishing adventures to children who have been diagnosed with life threatening illnesses. I think this is important to note to protect and preserve our I.R.S. good standing as well as adhere to the bi-laws of our Foundation. Also, in an effort to be as transparent as possible H.O.A.L. volunteers were involved in legislation that made it possible for the current tag transfer process that currently makes us and other groups able to take kids with life threatening illnesses on hunts. I was not a part of this movement, as it was prior to me volunteering. But, knowing Terry, I believe it was done on his own time by a man that saw the need and went to work getting things done. I would be happy to research it if anyone feels it necessary.

 

That being said, as a lifelong resident of this State and as a Hunter, my personal opinion is, I will never agree with the spirit nor the manner in which this bill was brought to light nor will I ever agree with the ideal that any one group can do a better job than a collective, a collective including the G&F department and the "average Joe's, wildlife groups and people who are only interested in doing the "greater good". My hope is that there are enough people willing to get involved and consistantly support the groups of their choosing and continue building on what is already a Nationally recognized effort by the G&F and participating organizations here in our State. I was at the Commision meeting and hope to see a whole bunch more people at tomorrow's meeting.

 

Thank you,

 

Matt

[javihammer]

“I got an email back from Representative Kate Brophy McGee for district 11, and this was her response.

"I do not support this bill, and if it comes back I will not vote for it"

 

She is the Vice Chairman of House of Representatives Standing Committee, for Energy and Natural Resources”

 

What a great legislator and super smart to see through the AZSFW smoke. She is now a green list legislator and will be on the good guy list. Thank you Kate, we will not forget you.

 

I need add another green lister…..

 

Craig Steele from CEI outdoors has been part of the good guy army for weeks. I should have recognized him earlier but I didn’t yet. Thanks to Amanda for reminding me. Please thank Craig and support his business, he deserves it.

 

Matt (Lucky), thanks for the explanation and all you do on behalf of HOAL.

 

I had no idea there were so many good selfless people in Arizona until recently. Becoming involved with wildlife conservation is a fantastic way to meet amazing people. That said, anyone can hop over to the good guy group, even the ones that have been pushing auction tags for expos are welcome if they pull away from the AZSFWC and/or make a public statement against the concepts of HB 2072. Adding new green listers is fun and makes me proud to live in Arizona.

 

Ryan

[Bugler]

Awesome and thanks to CEI. I can say that up here in the white mountains Randy Gaskill is touting the AZSFW and their agenda to others although I'm not quite sure what he does I think hes on the board for them. Not green.

JD

[javihammer]

We have several new very green legislators but at this point posting them publicly would be counter strategic. If you know of new ones, please send me a PM with their name. I would like to recognize them publicly in about a month.

 

I think it would be great if there was something in place that ensured that all of the active members against the CONCEPTS of HB 2072 were coordinated in such a way that all of the legislative districts were covered by at least one point person (who would hopefully also live in that district). It would also be great if we had someone behind the scenes tracking this information like a scorekeeper so we knew where we stand on the numbers.

 

On another note, there was a pretty convincing letter posted by the Mule Deer Foundation (MDF) opposing HB 2072 and the AZSFW (it is part of a thread on TheArizonaHunter.com). I applaud them for taking a position but would like to see them put some distance between themselves and the SFW. I am of the opinion that the AZSFW is DOA in a month, they will either have met their objective on an HB 2072 type bill or they will fail miserably and fade away. Unless a group is one of the wildlife groups that is a member of the AZSFWC, taking a position against the AZSFW is a somewhat soft position at this point. We all know the AZSFW is just one flush away from spinning down the bowl with the rest of the turds.

 

I THINK WE NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON EACH AND EVERY LEGISLATOR AND KNOW WHERE THEY STAND. WE HAVE THE NUMBERS AND WE HAVE THE TRUTH AND FACTS THAT PROVE THE CONCEPT OF PUBLIC TAGS DISTRIBUTED THROUGH EXPOS IS AN ECONOMIC LOSER AND VIOLATES THE TRUST OF EVERYONE THAT LIVES IN ARIZONA, NOT JUST HUNTERS. MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WORKING HARD AGAINST THIS FOR THE LAST TWO MONTHS, NOW WE NEED TO ALSO MAKE SURE WE ARE ALSO WORKING SMARTER AND IN A MORE COORDINATED FASHION.

 

BTW - I am not a leader of this movement, Arizona hunters have found their own niche on this and I have found myself positioned in the center of the private and public communication on this issue. I think I am getting more information than alot of people so I am passing it along so that other people can better plan their personal approach. I am just a regular guy that refuses to let bullies take tags from my Arizona family (literally and figuratively).

 

Ryan

[Bugler]

Awesome Ryan thanks

[AzHuntingAddict]

Thanks for the input javihammer! I have been adding info onto a facebook page to get the word out. My district is 23, and I have been in contact with the reps for my district.

[javihammer]

I have received several legislator updates, great job guys. We need some help from the Average Joes in the Tucson area. If you are down there, take ownership of the two House members and one senator in your district. Make sure they know you live in their district and refer to the concepts of HB 2072 rather than the actual bill number.

 

I remember back when I was in college at ASU and I took an economics class with a professor (Happel I believe). One of the concepts he drilled into us was the concept of identifying the actual cost for various things, one of the examples he always used was tickets to sporting events. The value of a ticket to an event may be far more or far less than the face value depending on many variables. Much of the value is time dependent, most tickets are worth the most earlier as people have more time to plan for the event. Market scarcity can cause tickets to go up in price but the prices go down as people have less and less time to plan for the event.

 

Many ticket scalpers hire homeless people to stand in line at the box office because there are usually limits to the number of tickets that can be purchased in a single transaction. As far as the scalper is concerned, standing in line is a bad use of his time. The homeless people earn a couple bucks for standing in line and the scalpers acquire many tickets at face value. Wealthy people with limited time gladly pay scalpers much higher than face value for the tickets because they have limited time and no desire to stand in line. For every homeless person or scalper, there are always plenty of average people standing in line to acquire tickets for their own personal use because they believe the event justifies the TIME and the MONEY spent to obtain the tickets.

 

Understanding the monetary value of a ticket isnt always easy. Is the value of the ticket the face value or the value the scalper received when he sold it to the end user (which begs the questions, value to who?)? Does a ticket sold by a scalper have the same economic impact as a ticket sold over the counter (do scalpers pay taxes?). At what point does a ticket go from very valuable to less valuable (15 minutes before the events begins...who knows?). The one thing that is certain is that someone had to stand in line and put in the time to obtain the tickets needed to exercise the privilige to attend the event. That time has a monetary value associated with it. The importance of that position in line is so important that many companies or box offices pass out a number to document where a person stands in the line. The value isnt just in the ticket, each spot in the line also has a value associated with it. The TIME in line is part of the cost of obtaining the ticket.

 

As we look at bills like HB 2072, the most outrageous and unacceptable part of the story is the fact that the TIME cost is not fully understood by the general public. The time cost of some big game tags can be measured in decades...a huge cost. What is the cost to a guy that pays to apply for an elk tag for 15 years and dies before he is lucky enough to draw the tag? What is the opportunity cost to a person that has chosen to apply for a trophy hunt for a decades while giving up opportunities to hunt easier hunts over that time? How much is the lost opportunity for a couple of grandkids who would like to hunt with their grandfather but never will because the hunt their grandfather has been applying for decades for a hunt with only a handful of tags and now the hunt takes a couple more years to draw as grandpas health deteriorates?

 

I am of the opinion that Arizona hunters have already paid a big deposit on ALL of our public game tags in terms of TIME and MONEY (public draw application fees). The deposit on the tags the AZSFW is seeking has already been paid for in TIME, these tags are already reserved for public draw hunters and should not be available for auction at any price...they might as well have a red "SOLD" sign on them. If you put a value on the TIME that all Average Joe hunters have already paid, the true value of these cream of the crop tags would be astronomical and well outside the range of what even wealthy tag buyers would be willing to pay in an auction. When the AZSFW pitches these tags to legislators they focus on the face value of the tags relative to what the auction price will be. The face value of the tags does not include the TIME cost (which is always way above face value), and the auction price is grossly inflated since it doesnt reflect the true net value once transaction costs are factored in. The other often misunderstood component is the value of the lost control to AZGFD and the risk in allowing a private organizations to manage the gross receipts for the sale of public assets. Whether you think the risk is high or low, there is a monetary value associated with that risk and the cost of that risk must be written off against the proceeds of any auction.

 

As we educate legislators about why auction tags for expos are bad, we need to explain to them that the people behind HB 2072 are ultimately wanting to distribute these tags at below market values (Actual value = Money + Time). Even the highest priced tag at the auction will sell for less than what it should if it needed to cover the TIME cost associated with it. Arizona shouldnt have to pay for a big outfitter party and offer training wheel auction tags (365 day tags - the only tags some outfitters can fill) to make money rain down for outdoor businesses in other states. We also dont need to provide tags owned by Average Joe hunters to organizations that view Average Joes with contempt.

 

As Robbie Woodhouse said, if an organization wants an expo they can pay for it themselves. Leave the public tags that Arizona Hunters have already paid for over many years alone. This is going to make a great news story regardless of the outcome, all the ingredients are there. Abuse of the public trust, national protagonists/antagonists, organizations making public statements against the interests of the middle class, businesses supporting these organizations, local and national politics in an election year.....lots of ingredients in this stew. If I were a politician, critter group or business I wouldn't touch this with a 20 foot pole.

 

Ryan