AZSFW open letter to sportsmen

[archerycrazy]

The two sentence apology from AZSFW is unacceptable. They do not state that they will never try something like HB 2072 in the future. They do not state that they will be completely transparent regarding future legislation. They are focused on hiding their efforts from the anti hunting crowd, while they hide their efforts from sportsmen as if they don’t trust us.

Their four and one half page justification is also unacceptable. They focus on only six species. The Arizona Game and Fish Department (AZGFD) have a trust responsibility to protect all species and their habitat. To focus only on those species we are likely to pay to hunt is unreasonable. All species have an effect on our environment. Even wolves, mountain lions and mice have some beneficial effect whether we like them or not.

The AZGFD has a delicate balance to maintain. Sportsmen go after them from one corner, while environmentalists go after them from a different corner.

The explanation from AZSFW highlights the large increase in the department’s budget over a sixteen year period and the decrease in tags. What occurred in the economy during that same time? Maybe the cost of most everything more than doubled and we finally provided our wildlife managers a long overdue wage increase. Have we had a severe drought along with increased predation? Yes. Did the drought affect only the six species that AZSFW focuses on? No. The nongame species are survivors. With less high grass, you have less area for the young we want to grow to hide in and survive in is severely reduced.

With regard to access, is it a problem? Yes. The problem will only increase if we start to pay land owners for access. If you pay owner one for access because he locked his gates and his neighbor, owner two has kept his open, what is owner two likely to do? Lock his gates and wait for his check.

I have learned over the years, that the most effective way to communicate sportsmen’s issues and garner support, is to speak directly to the Commission or Department personnel, your legislators and your fellow sportsmen. AZSFW left out most of those options.

George

[WhtMtnHunter]

That's the first thing I noticed. Why do they refer to a dead bill in the present tense? Shouldn't they be talking about HB 2072 in the past tense(ie. HB2072 WAS...). I'd be willing to bet that this gets resurrected in the next 30-60 days. They didn't say they were going to re-evaluate or re-assess the bill. They didn't say they wanted or were interested in any public input. They didn't say they were gonna tweak it a little due to overwhelming pressure. They said they want our support now. I'm afraid it's too late for that after they promised never to attempt a tag grab. They have irreparably damaged their reputation.

 

Secondly, who wrote this letter? You would think they would have the courtesy to add their name to the end. This cuts to the compete lack of accountability with this organization. Who are they? Do they have biologists or ex game and fish employees on staff? They mention the CBD. Well the CBD has dozens, perhaps hundreds, of lawyers on staff, how many lawyers does the AZSFW have? They want hundreds of tags for animals that belong in trust to the entire state of Arizona, and they wont even tell us who they are? How are we supposed to trust them? I want to know who the buck stops with in this organization. Are they just a bunch of wannabe politicians?

 

We are all aware of the 4 issues they have brought up. I don't think anyone has confidence in this organization to do anything about them. Money isn't going to buy more deer. I remember a commissioner meeting not to long ago where a rancher had decided to cut off access for hunting. One of the commissioners made a phone call during the meeting and the rancher reversed his stance. That didn't even cost a quarter for the call. The only access I see the AZSFW securing is for themselves. I'd rather leave that up to the AZ Game and Fish Dept and the commission. The decrease in sportsmen and women is a societal trend, what can be done? I'm sure most of us are willing to have our tag fees increased to make up for it. Certainly if this is the alternative. And fighting the environmentalist is not something I have ever seen the AZSFW do. I'd like to see their track record on that. The CBD sues for a living, what is their plan to counter that?

 

I could support an effort similar to this with some serious changes. First, 90% of the tag sales go directly back to the Game and Fish. Give the hard working and underpaid employees at the Game and Fish a boost. Second, there are too many tags. Cut the raffle tags to 50 or less and the Legislator tags down to 10. If I understand correctly, the Governor tags are the ones we already have. Otherwise, no more of those.Its not fair to those who have waited for decades to draw a coveted tag, only to have 3+ rich guys with huge posses out hunting their unit before the season opens.Third, I would demand complete transparency and accountability. They report within 45 days of every detail of where and how our tags were sold. I want everything down to the check register. Fourth, they have a performance clause. They claim to be able to increase deer herds by 10%, then they will have to prove they have done so or the expo is shut down or transferred to a competent group. Fifth, and most importantly, the task of running the expo goes to a group other than the AZSFW/AZSFWC as they have already proven they cannot be trusted.

[javihammer]

I know this is a long reply but I couldn’t resist the urge to share my point by point analysis about the AZSFW "Open Letter". I agree with Kent that the most important part was the last sentence. Once again, sorry it is so long, gotta take the wife out for a belated Valentines day meal tonight so I had to do a quick brain dump.

 

“In our effort to improve things that we see as very problematic for sportsmen and wildlife, we made a significant error in not providing information to the Sportsmen community on HB 2072 before introducing it at the Legislature"

 

I figured they would blame the outrage on "communication", the most predictable and mindless response possible. By the way AZSFW, the problem with HB 2072 was 1% communication and 99% because the bill is a piece of garbage.

 

“For the record, AZSFW is not a chapter nor an affiliate of Utah SFW. Having said that, we do believe they have had very positive impacts on improving wildlife habitat and increasing tags for hunters.”

 

Oh okay…….a true insult to the intelligence of anyone that reads this. Whatever.

 

“Our wildlife herds have been slowly declining or have at best remained status quo over the past 16 years despite significant increases in the Arizona Game and Fish Department’s (AZGFD) annual budget and the efforts of the species conservation organizations to improve their habitat by spending millions over this same period.”

 

So you provide statistics about permit availability to support your reduced wildlife numbers claim, another insult to our intelligence. Smart people know that permit numbers can be influenced by many factors other than actual wildlife numbers and herd health. In fact, most of the people on the AZSFW advocate against increasing permits in order to keep the big 200 inch deer alive for their auction buddies, too risky to let too many unguided Average Joes out there to actually hunt them. It would be a real shame if a big deer hit the dirt without some guide getting some money and a grip-and-grin photo.

 

Wow, you provided harvest success percentages; anyone with common sense knows that harvest rates are generally correlated with permit availability. A truly useless statistic. The slight decrease in harvest success for elk is probably due to the Limited Opportunity hunts that rolled out within the last decade. And for antelope, sheep and buffalo, these species represent statistical outliers; the fact that you even included them undermines the credibility of your statements.

 

As for making use of Big Game funds, I bet the AZGFD leadership and Commission would love to talk about the AZSFW qualifications for wildlife management at the next “AZSFW memo of understanding meeting”. Why don’t you jot down a few AZSFW accomplishments for them before you get there, they may inquire about them. Too bad you didn’t provide an explanation about how you chose to classify the AZGFD expenditure statistics; it would have been fun to pop that hot air balloon. .

 

“We can’t explain why the AZGFD is issuing more elk tags while harvests are declining nor can we explain the continuing reduction in harvests (other than herd size) despite the wide use of game cameras, long range rifles, wide spread use of ATVs and other technical improvements in binoculars, range finders and bow hunting equipment.”

 

Okay, you can stop racking your brains on this, I can explain it. Elk are expanding their range in Arizona and AZGFD is issuing low success Limited Opportunity tags to manage it. I think it is a good thing for everyone. Kudos to AZGFD, more proof they can make lemons into lemonade.

 

“Failure to recruit youth and others to replace sportsmen will force AZGFD to seek other options which the sportsmen will not like such as increasing license and tag fees.”

 

So the AZSFW wants to reduce the number of Average Joes in the field by stealing their tags when many Average Joes are the people that raise kids that value hunting. I would argue that privileged kids have more choices in life which makes them less likely to continue hunting as adults. Once again, the AZSFW offers no actual strategy in this letter for youth. Everybody loves kids, right? This is just a little lube for the next tag grab. Most guys understand tag price increases are somewhat inevitable, most of us would pay a couple bucks more to insure ourselves against the risk of corruption from groups like the AZSFW.

 

“Access to public land is becoming more, not less, difficult. Several factors contribute to this problem including landowners closing access across private lands, increased forest road closures and increased wilderness designations.”

 

So the hotshot AZSFW lobbyists (tongue in cheek) with a limited budget are going to address this global issue affecting the West. As I have stated in prior posts, allocating a budget for this would be a joke. This problem needs to be handled by the government, paying landowners from the proceeds of stolen tags is a poor short term strategy and a long term disaster for Average Joes. Besides, I don’t trust anything with “SFW” in the name to pick and choose which pieces of public land are worth the “grants/payoffs”.

 

“The next referendum to ban mountain lion hunting is coming. The Center for Biological Diversity is holding a seminar on the ecological role of bears, wolves and lions and “how their indiscriminate killing by humans – whether hunters or government agencies—disrupts predator’s social relationships, sparking more conflicts with people”. The AZGFD’s inability to manage mountain lions will be just another and possible final nail in the coffin. Do you know how many deer a lion eats a year? We must be ready to respond when the next issue presents itself.”

 

Didn’t the AZGFD just open night hunting for mountain lions? More fear mongering and aligns nicely with the SFW cry wolf strategy. I think this song is getting a little old. By the way, Arizonan’s have proven with HB 2072 that they know how to identify bad legislation and handle business when we have to. Thanks for the offer to ride shotgun with us though. We know how to contact our legislators on predator issues, please watch for traffic as you exit the vehicle.

 

“The legislation, HB 2072, is meant to create a 3-4 day Sportsmen Expo annually in Arizona . The Expo would generate significant revenues that would be invested in programs specially designed to start bending the trend lines discussed above in a positive direction. It is a big deal - Bigger than anything contemplated so far in Arizona . It would generate about $25 million in new economic activity for our State and her economy.”

 

Show me how you came up with 25 million AZSFW; I would love to dance with you on this one. By the way, the Utah expo is actually receiving less support now. I doubt the market could support another DPee Smooch fest anyway. Auction tags are selling at record lows as the SFW floods the market with new ones. The few high profile tags (like OUR AZ EXPO muley tag) will always sell for a smidgen more every year in order to keep the tag market open, these tags do not represent the auction tag market as a whole. The rich guys know where to buy auction tags, Arizonan’s don’t need another expo full of self righteous mouth breathers to get our auction tags sold for a fair price. And we don’t need any more auction tags either. [/i]

 

“Most of the (raffle) tags described in the legislation (about 276) are existing draw tags and would remain as draw tags but would have special rules beneficial to sportsmen and would only be available at the Expo.”

 

That is the point and the PROBLEM with HB 2072. Adding these raffle tags would actually drive down NR license revenue, screw up the 10% NR tag allocation and would rob Average Joes of hunt opportunity and provide more control to the AZSFWC and reduce the control and dollars to AZGFD though the regular public drawing. Raffle tags don’t actually raise much money anyway when there are a bunch of them (check the Utah expo numbers if you don’t believe me). Thanks for the explanation though, it seems Arizona Sportsman and the Game and Fish Commission had it figured out the first time around when the Commissioners gave it the 5-0 thumbs down.

 

You would think that with over a month to respond the AZSFW would have come up with a more convincing argument for HB 2072……I give this one a D-. I guess there is no way to polish the HB 2072 turd, too bad that turd and the jokers that dropped it are leaving stink on so many historically clean critter groups. The front-line members of the critter groups should be outraged by this “Open Letter” and need to force their leadership to renounce their membership to the AZSFW/AZSFWC/SFW orgs. The AZSFW parasites arrogantly prey on the credibility of the real critter group volunteers that have built their reputations through years of unselfish hard work and personal expense. The critter group bylaws generally allow their front line members to override the decisions of their leadership through a vote so maybe we will see an uprising in the near future.

 

Ryan

 

AZSFWC CONSERVATION PLATES = LESS HUNT OPPORTUNITY (TAKE EM OFF)

[krp]

Email was sent by....

 

Suzanne Gilstrap

 

Executive Director/Government Affairs Consultant for AZSFW

[SirRoyal]

Heres what I'm reading.

 

PLEASE HELP ME AND MY GUIDE FRIENDS SAVE ARIZONA WILDLIFE WE ARE INVESTING IN OUR FUTURE!

 

WE ARE SELLING AN INSURANCE PLAN AND FEAR WILL SELL IT!

[azslim]

One thing we all seem to overlook is we take a beating on issues voted on, the anti-hunting crowds spend millions to stop us, unfortunately we will have to play their game. It is estimated 10% (actually we are down to about 8%) of the population hunts, 10% is against hunting, and 80% could care less, but this 80% will vote based on seeing a puppy in a trap, or a lion cub playing in the grass, and their votes won't be for sportsmen/women. It pains me to say this but we need to get money to buy votes, and that is done with lobbying and tv ads.

[krp]

There is no way using pubic funds, as in public tag revenue, for private interest lobbying is ethical in any sense... the only votes I've seen bought was to generate more money for themselves, not AZG&F... then we just trust that they will use the money for the benefit of all sportsmen... no way!

 

Kent

[.270]

Don't eat that gramma, thats bull$h!t. Like i said earleir, there are lies, da mn lies, and statistics statistics wont make it rain and only a politician or a rich guy is stupid enough to think they can legislate the weather Lark.

[javihammer]

Apparently Arizona already has an expo and the AZSFW/AZSFWC/SFW have their fingers all over it. This expo is next weekend and speaks to the timing of the HB 2072 tag grab. These az clowns were so confident they started building the tag store before they even had the tags to sell. I have also heard Jerry Wiers is considering a run for mayor of Glendale where the ISE show is being held. As a kid that grew up in Glendale, I am going to be all over that campaign.

 

Even more interesting is that “John Kirk” at sportsexpos.com said his company is setting these expos all over the west (they have one in Vegas in a couple weeks). Looks alot like the SFW expo in SLC city to me. These expos will wither and die without tags to auction and raffle, THIS IS WHY HB 2072 is so important to Arizonans and other Average Joe hunters throughout the West. SFW isnt a conservation organization, they are a wildlife business promotion company. And the numbers dont lie.

 

Also interesting is why the ADA picked 2/21/12 to meet about their future with AZSFW. The ISE show starts the very next day which would be too late for us to put much pressure on their banquet attendance and by association the ISE expo attendance (the ADA is giving free admission to the ISE show - it actually seems like the banquet is a sideshow to the ISE show. What a bunch of snakes. PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE BELOW (specifically Pete Cimerellos comments).

 

Ryan

 

 

http://www.skinnymoose.com/desertrat/2012/02/17/the-arizona-deer-association-ada-hosts-annual-banquet-at-ise/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-arizona-deer-association-ada-hosts-annual-banquet-at-ise

 

For Immediate Release: February 3, 2012

The Arizona Deer Association (ADA) Hosts annual Fundraising Banquet in

partnership with the International Sportsmen’s Expo

Glendale, AZ: The Arizona Deer Association (ADA) will host its annual fundraising dinner in partnership with the 12th annual International Sportsmen’s Exposition(ISE) at the University of Phoenix Stadium.

 

The show runs February 22‐26. Doors for the banquet open at 4 p.m. on Saturday, February 25. Tickets to the banquet are $70 each, which includes admission to the ISE, whereanglers, hunters and outdoor enthusiasts enjoy the latest in products and services, plus celebrity guest appearances, clinics and free giveaways. Guests are encouraged to enjoy the Expo and finish the day with a relaxing meal, followed by anopportunity to discover more about ADA’s wildlife preservation initiatives. Casualattire is welcome. ADA will offer banquet guests the opportunity to bid for three coveted Arizona State Commissioner’s tags not available through the regular Game & Fishdrawing for Black Bear, Mule Deer and Coues Whitetail Deer. These tags,valued between $5,000 and $200,000, allow the winning bidders to huntstatewide for a full year, between August 15, 2012 and August 14, 2013 invirtually every open unit for those species.

 

The banquet will also feature a silent auction, where hot items such as firearms,outdoor gear, artwork, vacation packages and more will offer fodder for competitionduring the evening.“We’re partnering with the Sportsman’s Expo to promote our message ofconservation,” said Pete Cimellaro, ADA board member and chairman for thebanquet and this year’s ISE event. “Many don’t realize that game and fishingsportsmen are also ardent conservationists. Our efforts to preserve the naturalhabitat for, and expand the population of Arizona’s wildlife is a message we want to

share with young people especially, and the ISE is a fantastic family event.”

 

To purchase tickets for the banquet that includes admission to the International

Sportsmen’s Expo, visit http://www.azdeer.org/2012_banquet/2012_banquet.htm

 

###

A private, nonprofit organization, the Arizona Deer Association (ADA)passionately protects and preserves Arizona’s natural habitat to ensure theexpansion of the mule deer and Coues’ deer herds. Resources derived fromfundraising efforts underwrite continuous efforts that support outreach,research, awareness, programs and education to that end, working in partnership with the Arizona Department of Game & Fish. For further information, visit

www.azdeer.org

Media Contact

Scott Kelly, Black Dog Promotions

4802063435

scott@blackdogpromotions.com

[elkaholic]

JAvi- this ISE has been coming to PHX for the past 10-12 yrs. or more

 

these tags where never intended for this expo- the azsfw/sfw would have started a different /new expo to sell the tags - all expenses paid and special banquets to sell raffle - others tags = all expenses paid and all administration expenses paid - in full before any money was givin to wildlife groups of special interest projects - and of course with azsfw in full contol of the money!!!

 

This ADA banquet didn't have/ (hasn't had ) any interests of the azsfw agenda - They have always sold the govenors tag - of one sort or another - last yr they teamed up with the antelope org to help raise money - the money goes to G&F.

 

All the banquets we have now and have had for some time raise the big $$$$ - the elk - the antelope - the bighorn sheep etc.- and we know how and where the money goes

etc -

 

this is the very reason this bill 2072 got started - so they azsfw could and would have complete control the tags and the money.

 

They still want it - we can not allow this special interest group to try ansd weasel out of the corruption and behind the lines blindsides backstabbing attempt to steal them from under our noses - after all thes orgs put their trust in them - bunch of low -lifes that need to GO AWAY AND OR BE DRIVIN OUT!

 

this letter - rather insulting attempt to smooth things over to see things the way they want them to be is as bad an attempt as weiers memo

 

we dont know whats good for us but they do - so come along now - stand in line and take your medicine !

[krp]

Right now 100% of the auction/raffle tag money must be given to G&F... in 2072, only the face value is returned and all the rest goes to the qualifying party.

 

In Utah they give back 30% to their G&F...

 

Kent

[javihammer]

I think you and I are saying the same thing Elkaholic. The ISE show has been around a while but the very close partnership between the ISE sponsors and the ADA (brokered more than likely by the AZSFW) looks new to me. I went to an ADA banquet a couple years ago and there was no association with any “expos” at that time. My concern would be that the AZSFW would use this partnership with the ISE to either argue for an expo of their own or buy/change the name of the ISE expo (which would by default give the steering wheel to the SFW home office in SLC). Kind of a pilot project if you will. There is also little doubt that the BS about all of the money generated from the raffle and auction tags (and non-resident tax revenue) sold at such an expo would make for good campaign propaganda for the next political campaign for Weiers (like a run for mayor in Glendale).

 

The bottom line is that the AZSFW and the AZSFWC are playing matchmaker for entities that are working against the vast majority of hunter’s interests in Arizona. It is important that well meaning hunters know that paying for tickets to walk through the ISE expo or attending a banquet sponsored by the primary critter group members linked to the AZSFW could be (and almost certainly are) paying the people working to steal their hunt opportunity. Even if you attend one of these things and spend no money, your attendance there will still be used to support some bogus arbitrary projection about all the dollars you generated for ………fill in the blank.

 

One more thing about the ADA banquet. Admission is generally purchased by buying a table (well in advance of the banquet). There are plenty of wealthy people willing to buy tables but it is often difficult to actually fill those tables with people. These banquets are a casino atmosphere with auctions and swag all over the place, the key is to get bodies in the door. I would have to imagine that even if the tables are sold for the ADA banquet that no one outside of the outdoor industry people will want to show their face for fear of being linked to all the dirty orgs that have surfaced over the last month. The auction bidders usually bid by proxy so they aren’t even onsite. I am really interested in what the actual attendence to the banquet itself will be. I have no problem with a free standing critter banquet with a couple of big money auction tags, I just don’t agree with an organization like AZSFW or AZSFWC having anything to do with them or the banquet itself being linked to some “expo”. There are more than a couple good guys at the ADA that will put their foot down on this, sure hope it gets corrected before the banquet.

 

Ryan

 

AZSFWC CONSERVATION LICENSE PLATES = LESS HUNT OPPORTUNITY (TAKE EM OFF)

[krp]

Ok, don't forget the 10 buck deal...

 

it's to support OUR voice, the only one we have left... this first donation will go straight to CWT, we support those that support OUR voice.

 

Get on the pledge list and then send the 10 bucks to CWT if out of town, if you are coming to the meeting, bring the 10 bucks and I will deliver it PUBLICLY to the supporter of OUR voice.

 

Thanks,

 

Kent