ADA statement

[archerycrazy]

If we see a statement from ADA this week, there will probably be several of us from Yuma. Otherwise, I can'r see wasting our time or money on a trip that likely will accomplish nothing. ADA is making it's own bed.

[krp]

Also notice that only four or five of us have responded to Amanda saying we will be there on the 21st. Won't be hard for them to blow us off and continue on there way. If we want to make a difference people need to show up.

 

We've already been blown off...

 

Kent

[runningbird]

Also notice that only four or five of us have responded to Amanda saying we will be there on the 21st. Won't be hard for them to blow us off and continue on there way. If we want to make a difference people need to show up.

 

We've already been blown off...

 

Kent

 

Unfortunatly it seem like you may be correct.

[CouesWhitetail]

Also notice that only four or five of us have responded to Amanda saying we will be there on the 21st. Won't be hard for them to blow us off and continue on there way. If we want to make a difference people need to show up.

 

We've already been blown off...

 

Kent

 

 

I am curious why you say that considering the ADA set up a special meeting and specifically invited you all to come give your input. That seems the opposite of blowing you off to me. If you want to have some input on ADA policy, I encourage you all to come to the meeting. I think more can be solved in face-to-face meetings than on the internet.

[audsley]

I see no reason to meet with ADA. I don't believe ADA gave us HB2072. I believe AZSFW and Jerry Weiers did. ADA put themselves on the hook by refusing to denounce HB2072, and some in the ADA even came to the bill's defense, but ADA is still just a third party, at least as an organization. This does not rule out the possible presence of some AZSFW operatives or pawns among the ADA board members, but the primary role of ADA in this melodrama is that of volunteer spear-catchers, P.R. men for AZSFW and, I’m afraid in the end, fall guys.

 

IF AZSFW believes it can remain effective in the wake of HB2072, then a meeting between sportsmen and the AZSFW people who conceived and drafted HB2072 - provided anyone can figure out exactly who all of them are - might be useful. But there’s no use having a meeting about HB2072 or AZSFW with any entity that can’t accept full responsibility for either.

 

If you go, expect to hear how HB2072 would not have hurt the existing Habitat Partnership program and its attendant fundraising through auctions and super raffles. You will also hear about all the good things revenue from HB2072 would have accomplished. You will hear that HB2072 would have put more big game on the ground and given back far more resident hunting opportunity than was being lost through the sale of tags. But I doubt you will hear any re-designed organizational plan making AZSFW more transparent and accountable, and thus a truly legitimate voice for the state’s sportsmen. If AZSFW shows up and surprises me, I will gladly apologize for any dark thoughts I’ve had about them.

 

Now I'll repeat something I said several days ago. HB2072 was designed primarily as a funding mechanism for AZSFW. AZSFW has been put on notice that the private financial backers and sportsmen's groups that have carried AZSFW up to now will not continue contributing at their previous levels. This bill was intended to replace that funding. Everyone needs to cling on the words in lines 20-24, P.4, paragraph H: “The qualified organization shall apply the remaining proceeds… to achieve any of the following purposes, including the qualified costs of administration (emphasis added).” Only AZSFW qualifies.

 

The most compelling message in ADA’s sale pitch will probably be the urgent need for a sportsmen’s advocacy group in this state. I agree with them on that point, and I could write a 200-page book on why. But unless sportsmen are willing to pay a significant share of the costs, we will keep getting what we’re paying for.

 

Currently the principal NGOs speaking for the state’s sportsmen are the NRA and AZSWF. You’ve seen AZSFW’s program. The NRA has been unusually active for hunters lately by initiating bills that would allow us to hunt any big game with AR-15s and to put silencers on our rifles when we hunt. Just what every Arizona hunter has been dreaming of, right? The NRA charges its members for annual dues, but doesn’t single out hunters for any separate charge, so it seems hunters can enjoy the benefits of NRA activism for free. But there’s a problem with things that seem free for your use. They’re usually designed for you to be used.

[krp]

There's been plenty of questions asked and ignored by ADA, pretty much all of them. Something I've asked a few times is when was the dues paid to azsfw last as it is crucial in the timeline of Super PAC requalification, HB2072's swift push through at the very beginning of the legislative session in Jan, a huge election year both Nationally and locally and whether they may have the resources to continue cut off from the orgs. I've brought up a multitude of issues with no response except from the few of us passionate about the answers or John calling me a conspiracy theorist and actually misrepresenting my words as his evidence. ADA has even publicly ignored their own members that finally pushed for answers or clarification themselves.

 

I have presented different platforms where I would be interested in attending after being challenged by John and then Chef to meet prior. Not one peep... not even an 'explicative' off.

 

Considering lack of response on these politically charged threads by ADA and waiting 1 1/2 months to even consider a response publicly, I have no confidence that a resolution can be found in 60 mins. After all the effort/research I put into all my posts, I have to respectfully disagree that having a 2 min statement in a 60 min meeting on whether ADA should continue to support azsfw is worth my time or find solutions to the real problems.

 

I do want to thank you Amanda and CWT for having given me a platform to speak. Good luck.

 

Kent

[Chef]

I have presented different platforms where I would be interested in attending after being challenged by John and then Chef to meet prior. Not one peep... not even an 'explicative' off.

 

I brought up the idea of a "pre-meeting" so that time is not wasted.

Amanda has John's number, I had to get with her, to get his number when

I had direct questions/concerns to address with him.

 

I know Amanda is open to giving you his number privately as I'm sure

John doesn't want to paste his personal contact info on the world wide web.

 

If I gave the impression that I would arrange this, I apologize.

I do not know either of your schedules and I am a busy man myself.

 

Last I heard, you two were both open to a pre meet.

[CouesWhitetail]

There's been plenty of questions asked and ignored by ADA, pretty much all of them. Something I've asked a few times is when was the dues paid to azsfw last as it is crucial in the timeline of Super PAC requalification, HB2072's swift push through at the very beginning of the legislative session in Jan, a huge election year both Nationally and locally and whether they may have the resources to continue cut off from the orgs. I've brought up a multitude of issues with no response except from the few of us passionate about the answers or John calling me a conspiracy theorist and actually misrepresenting my words as his evidence. ADA has even publicly ignored their own members that finally pushed for answers or clarification themselves.

 

I have presented different platforms where I would be interested in attending after being challenged by John and then Chef to meet prior. Not one peep... not even an 'explicative' off.

 

Considering lack of response on these politically charged threads by ADA and waiting 1 1/2 months to even consider a response publicly, I have no confidence that a resolution can be found in 60 mins. After all the effort/research I put into all my posts, I have to respectfully disagree that having a 2 min statement in a 60 min meeting on whether ADA should continue to support azsfw is worth my time or find solutions to the real problems.

 

I do want to thank you Amanda and CWT for having given me a platform to speak. Good luck.

 

Kent

 

 

I guess I missed several of your questions previously. and I am not sure what different platforms you suggested either...I guess I need to go back and re-read your posts.

 

but I will PM you John's number and you can call and speak with him. Perhaps that's the best way to make sure you aren't wasting time at this meeting.

[krp]

And yet, when I answered with different scenarios that I'd be willing to accommodate, even participate in support... nothing.

 

John isn't my audience I'm reaching out to, I already know his agenda. Finally a couple of other ADA members came out, that was my agenda.

 

And my question is still not answered... lol

 

Kent

[CouesWhitetail]

And yet, when I answered with different scenarios that I'd be willing to accommodate, even participate in support... nothing.

 

John isn't my audience I'm reaching out to, I already know his agenda. Finally a couple of other ADA members came out, that was my agenda.

 

And my question is still not answered... lol

 

Kent

 

 

What scenarios are you talking about?

[coueshunter]

amanda, is there going to be any public position statement from Ada on their relationship with azsfw after this hb2072 fiasco? secondly what AZ groups have publicly made their positions clear like AZ elk. and. yvrgc. have?.....

[krp]

Kent... If I thought Ryan's guidelines would be the focus of the meeting, I'd show up in support of ADA, with a coffee can for 10.00 donations and my 10 spot the first in the bottom... if it's a damage control exercise and no direction, nope.

 

John... You should really attempt to come to the ADA board meeting. Your conspiracy theories and statements are not even close to being on target. If you wish to do a service to those on this site, come to the meeting and lets have a civil discussion face to face. Regards BPJ...

 

Kent... If Amanda or the other ADA leaders want this for the meeting, If there is still a question that SFW needs to be gone and me spending the next weeks amassing the evidence in a structural timeline for your members, then I'll do it. My presentation will take the entire meeting, I won't put the effort in if I'm cutoff after a couple minutes.

 

If the meeting is about moving past sfw and getting back on track on some important issues... I will come with my coffee can and you can lecture me in private, I will listen, shake your hand and not even comment.

 

Chef... I think it would be a good thing to have Kent and John meet and talk for a while before the ADA meeting.

 

Kent... I don't have a problem meeting with John and listening.

 

But if this is a public trial of sfw and I'm then expected to address the members, that will take a much different effort on my part to prepare, than just going and making a public showing with my 10.00 solicitation can that I support ADA'a new direction.

 

What is the purpose of this meeting now? John and I debating or moving past sfw? honest question.

 

I will continue to pound the sfw issue until it is not relevant and then switch gears to the next step without further thought of sfw. I'd like to address the commission on the Utah tag sell issue and see where they stand on bringing it back. Can't if we are still unsure where the orgs stand on supporting sfw and they looking over the commissions back with the review board.

 

So it's relevant for me to know how the meeting stands before I walk in and what role I'll be playing.

 

Kent... If this meeting is a 2072 review for the members before the board meets in the future to decide on support of azsfw, most of us are way past this. I don't think there is anything fresh to say about 2072 that hasn't been detailed here. For some reason I figured the board would listen and then make a decision before the meeting broke. I have no interest in going to a meeting not ending with a conclusion.

 

John... I think it would be best if you and I had some time to discuss issues prior to the meeting. Amanda has my contact info. I would be willing to talk or meet earlier that day. BPJ

 

Kent... John, if I go to the meeting I will contact you prior and we will make an arrangement...

 

Kent... Ryan, it would probably make sense to have a couple of the board members and a couple of us anti sfw premeet before. If Amanda or Chef set it up I'm in, whether I stay for the meeting or not.

[CouesWhitetail]

amanda, is there going to be any public position statement from Ada on their relationship with azsfw after this hb2072 fiasco? secondly what AZ groups have publicly made their positions clear like AZ elk. and. yvrgc. have?.....

 

I can't speak for the entire board, but obviously we will need to rethink our relationship with AZSFW. So I suspect that we will come out with some sort of clarification of our relationship with AZSFW. I had hoped to see that sooner rather than later, but I am just one voice on the board.

 

As far as I know, there are no other groups than the ones you listed have publicly pulled their support of AZSFW. That doesn't mean they won't do it in the future. I think all the other groups are waiting to see if AZSFW is even going to exist anymore and if it does, if they are going to put in place new policies that would make the group more transparent and more accountable to the groups that fund it. Again, I am not on the board of these other groups, so I can't really say for sure what they are thinking.

[krp]

YVRGC and AES claim to have and are no longer listed on the azsfw site as org members.

 

Kent

[CouesWhitetail]

Kent... If I thought Ryan's guidelines would be the focus of the meeting, I'd show up in support of ADA, with a coffee can for 10.00 donations and my 10 spot the first in the bottom... if it's a damage control exercise and no direction, nope.

 

John... You should really attempt to come to the ADA board meeting. Your conspiracy theories and statements are not even close to being on target. If you wish to do a service to those on this site, come to the meeting and lets have a civil discussion face to face. Regards BPJ...

 

Kent... If Amanda or the other ADA leaders want this for the meeting, If there is still a question that SFW needs to be gone and me spending the next weeks amassing the evidence in a structural timeline for your members, then I'll do it. My presentation will take the entire meeting, I won't put the effort in if I'm cutoff after a couple minutes.

 

If the meeting is about moving past sfw and getting back on track on some important issues... I will come with my coffee can and you can lecture me in private, I will listen, shake your hand and not even comment.

 

Chef... I think it would be a good thing to have Kent and John meet and talk for a while before the ADA meeting.

 

Kent... I don't have a problem meeting with John and listening.

 

But if this is a public trial of sfw and I'm then expected to address the members, that will take a much different effort on my part to prepare, than just going and making a public showing with my 10.00 solicitation can that I support ADA'a new direction.

 

What is the purpose of this meeting now? John and I debating or moving past sfw? honest question.

 

I will continue to pound the sfw issue until it is not relevant and then switch gears to the next step without further thought of sfw. I'd like to address the commission on the Utah tag sell issue and see where they stand on bringing it back. Can't if we are still unsure where the orgs stand on supporting sfw and they looking over the commissions back with the review board.

 

So it's relevant for me to know how the meeting stands before I walk in and what role I'll be playing.

 

Kent... If this meeting is a 2072 review for the members before the board meets in the future to decide on support of azsfw, most of us are way past this. I don't think there is anything fresh to say about 2072 that hasn't been detailed here. For some reason I figured the board would listen and then make a decision before the meeting broke. I have no interest in going to a meeting not ending with a conclusion.

 

John... I think it would be best if you and I had some time to discuss issues prior to the meeting. Amanda has my contact info. I would be willing to talk or meet earlier that day. BPJ

 

Kent... John, if I go to the meeting I will contact you prior and we will make an arrangement...

 

Kent... Ryan, it would probably make sense to have a couple of the board members and a couple of us anti sfw premeet before. If Amanda or Chef set it up I'm in, whether I stay for the meeting or not.

 

 

It sounds like you wanted to meet with John prior to the meeting and also have another meeting with anti-sfw folks. That's fine with me, but I will be out of town this week and so I am not the person to set these meetings up. I sent you John's phone number this evening, and I think it would be a great idea if you guys met before this meeting. John is more than happy to meet with you. Regarding the anti-sfw meeting, you can always use the forum to organize that if you like.

 

I thought I had posted the point of the meeting was to have a chance to give your input to the ADA board regarding this whole issue. I can't guarrantee what the board will do. So I can't promise you a decision will be made that night regarding AZSFW. Personally, I would like to see the board come to a decision on AZSFW.

 

I know that most of the board doesn't come here and read these posts, so if you have questions and want answers, the best way to do that is to come to a meeting. I try to answer questions the best I can, but I don't always know the answers and I can't speak for everyone on the board (and neither can John).