ADA statement

[audsley]

Kent,

 

It would be great to have the actual figures for AZSFW's funding by source for the last 2 or 3 years. How much was provided by ADBSS, AES, ADA, YVRG&C, etc., both as member groups and additional contributions. Then look at what they had promised for 2012. Without that information, we're speculating with only a little known, factual data at hand.

 

I'd say whether there will never be enough money depends on what individual sportsmen and the sportsmen's conservation groups want to do. I believe there could be enough money if there was the will to provide it.

[AZLance]

Folks,

 

Until the ADA comes out against this bill, they are just as guilty as ASFW and Weiers! Mark Bool and PBJ both claim that, and I will use a quote:

 

"As has already been stated the ADA never did take a vote on this issue. In fact we did not even have a board meeting during the explosion of HB 2072. It was dropped on a Friday and pulled early the following week. We never voted because it was pulled off the table and we were told it would not be reintroduced. For the ADA the issue was a moot point."

 

This is a big LIE! The bill is NOT DEAD, and this issue should NOT be a moot point! I got this e-mail today from Rep Weiers:

 

Dear Lance,

 

Thank you for contacting me regarding HB2072, sale of big game tags. I appreciate your concern as a sportsman of Arizona and wanted to let you know that the bill is being held and will not go forward in its present form.

 

I wish you safe and successful hunting in the future.

God Bless,

JAMES P. WEIERS

Representative, District 10

Arizona House of Representatives

 

So now the truth comes out! The bill is NOT dead, it is just being re-worded, so they can try once again to sneak it thru. Folks, get ready for another battle! And unless you are aginst this bill, we the average hunter should assume that you are for it, and do everything to bring you to your knees, or put you out of business!

 

So ADA, YES or NO? Man up and tell us where you stand!

[DesertBull]

There is a check mark on your draw apps that allows you to donate DIRECTLY to game and fish. No raffles, auctions, platinum memberships, ect.

 

I always throw in a few dollars, but if they keep stuffing those dollars up a wolfs butt, I will quit.

[gotcoues]

I received the same e mail as AZLance today.

[krp]

Kent,

 

It would be great to have the actual figures for AZSFW's funding by source for the last 2 or 3 years. How much was provided by ADBSS, AES, ADA, YVRG&C, etc., both as member groups and additional contributions. Then look at what they had promised for 2012. Without that information, we're speculating with only a little known, factual data at hand.

 

I'd say whether there will never be enough money depends on what individual sportsmen and the sportsmen's conservation groups want to do. I believe there could be enough money if there was the will to provide it.

 

Some of their tax records have been posted so it's not to much of a guess, though I have asked specifics and no answers are coming forth, if I was truly interested I guess we could pull the records of the orgs and add it up... I'm close on my math and trying to make you think for yourself... I've learned writing novel length posts with facts don't work as well as shorter posts with hints... so I've also learned from the past and made adjustments.

 

Hint again.... bring back the Governor tags from being sold in Utah, make a big splash at a banquet or expo, bring in more attendance by showcasing Az's prestigious tags... attendance means venders, sponsors, big money... one funding plus...

 

I've thrown a lot of bones with my steadfast position that azsfw must go and they won't go if the orgs continue to back them.

 

SFW hasn't given up on the tag grab, you can't move forward until the threat of sfw is gone.

 

Kent

[.270]

i really like where he says, "i wish you safe and succesful hunting in the future". he must have meant that statement for the rich guys that would get all the tags. Lark.

[krp]

I've meant to say in a couple posts and just forgot....

 

I don't believe that ADA or the other orgs knew about the bill, I imagine a few members that are also high up in sfw did, but not the ones coming here to standup for ADA... I do believe it's hard for them to accept that they have invested a ton of money in azsfw and it's hard to not have hope that their investment can be saved.

 

I have no real hard feelings over them being snookered, just trying to reduce the time frame where they will realize that they must change course and wash their hands of sfw and unfortunately their investment.

 

Kent

[Chef]

I had a lengthy telephone conversation with John Koleszar this evening. I thanked him for all he does in regards to the ADA. I told him it was a wise decision for the ADA to hold a board meeting where the public was invited to discuss the stance of this bill and the ADA's future affiliation with AZSFW.

 

I hope it is a constructive meeting with good feedback given to the board. Time will be limited so the agenda needs to be brief and to the point. Questions will need to be direct and non-repetitive. I think a lot of answers will be given and look forward to seeing people there.

[.270]

Chef, this is a really important issue. probably as important as anything anyone will see for maybe a couple of years. probably the most important issue until sfw and weiers try it again, which they will. why are they already putting a time limit on things? why don't they open it up let'r rip? what's the difference if it takes an hour or so longer? i ain't trying to rip anybody with the ada, but this is more important than any banquet right now. i'm headed outta town to work for a couple on months tomorrow, or i'd be there. it's probably a good thing too, because i don't know if i could be too civil to certain folks. i don't even get to watch the superbowl. but i really don't like to hear that it has to be short and sweet. there's a lotta angst here and if the ada wants to dispell any rumors and get back some of the credibiltiy they have lost, they need to jump up and take the lead. Lark.

[Chef]

Lark, I really wish you would be there. It would be a good thing.

 

The time limits are to keep things on track. I for one, don't want to show up and have people go on and on and on repeating themselves and not getting their point across. People need to show up, with their spiel written down, and get to business. That's the difference between an hour or three.

 

I too have been to meetings where the public is invited. (not always wildlife related) You always have the people that show up to lecture and point fingers etc. I always think, "what a buffoon." (for lack of a better term) I say, stop complaining and start doing something, come up with ideas, a solution, a plan, ANYTHING. Yet, these people will show up time and time again.

 

Again, I agree with the time limits. Regardless of how we may feel, the banquet is a huge investment in time and money for the ADA and there is unfinished business to take care of there.

 

I know how important this issue is. We will be dealing with this for a long time. Change and people trying to promote policy will continue. One has to adapt or be educated on the issues and help to steer things in the direction that benefits wildlife and us.

 

I will try and fight the fight, not for you, but for your grandkids and the continuation of our hunting heritage you have passed on to them.

[TLH]

Hey Larry--i am in for $10.00 if you can get it rolling!

[javihammer]

I applaud the ADA for setting up this meeting. I am also going to try to make it. With three kids, brother, brother in laws, uncles, cousins, friends, wife, father, father in law…..it would be pretty lame of me to not make it. Even allowing a 5-10% loss in hunt opportunity means a couple less opportunities in my lifetime to do my favorite thing with my favorite people. My great-grandfather started hunting in Arizona with my aunts and uncles in the 1940s.

 

If I were running this meeting, here is how I would structure it to ensure maximum effectiveness. Before some ADA member gets snippy, this is merely a suggestion from an Average Joe.

 

1. Make sure no AZSFW members are present (their presence will ensure ADA members bite their tongues and hold back their real feelings about the HB 2072 thing)..this wont sit well with the Average Joes.

2. Ask the audience to refrain from discussing the details (language) of HB2072. A third grader could tell that thing lacked any redeeming value and it will just present people like me with an opportunity to make the supporters sound really stupid. I think we all have a common understanding that the bill and the group that presented it are pretty worthless. (like Kent, I also did some research and found most of the “accomplishments” of AZSFW were mostly procedural…I stand by my worthless comment)

3. Start off the meeting with “The ADA has decided to terminate their relationship and all financial support with the AZSFW and any future conservation relationships that include any of the people on the board at the time HB2072 was presented”. Have someone explain why it took so much longer for the ADA to make this move than the Yuma and AES groups. (allow about 2 minutes for clapping)

4. Follow this up with an update about whatever the ADA knows about the special news that the AZSFW is supposed to present next week (John K insinuated he knew something). Since we have established the AZSFW is really not a friend of anyone, there is no harm in sharing this information as early as possible. Hopefully this update will be that the AZSFW is disbanding (more clapping). If so, it could save some of the other critter groups a meeting.

5. Have someone that knows the impacts of the AZSFW termination speak to any impacts. How do we fill the wormholes created and (unfortunately filled) by this group (like the commissioner review board).

6. Have someone from the ADA reiterate that there are no secret partnerships with the SFW or any other entities outside the state of Arizona. Have them stress that resident hunt opportunity is a top priority for the ADA and that they will make every effort to disassociate themselves from anyone or any group that makes a play to steal it.

7. Once the elephant in the room has been addressed, healthy discussion can ensue. Some topics could include…

7a. Auction tags - Does it make sense for them to be auctioned off in Utah? Does this put future “conservation” groups at risk of going rogue from excessive exposure to weasels.

7b. The 90% club – Could the ADA do a better job of managing communication with Average Joes? An example – advocating for tag reductions for “hunt quality” at every opportunity…as an Average Joe I think that this is a bit out of hand. That said, I do support tag reduction when it makes sense for habitat reasons.

7c. Revenue – How do we generate revenue without having to rely on potentially corrupt big money donors. (would Cabelas or Bass pro pitch in a dollar for every hour donated toward habitat conservation projects)

7d. 20% bonus pass – was stupid from day one and is a poster child for what can happen when HB2072-like bills get passed and mathematically challenged people are allowed to get too much airtime. This is causing most of the desperation with non-residents and fuels them to band together for tag thefts.

7e. Group application point averaging – If we made sure all group applicants were allotted no more than 4 points more than the lowest point holder, there would be less abuse and better odds for Average Joe (some guys are applying with their bonus point rich wives/kids/buddies that have little interest in actually hunting).

7f. Clarification of signing tags over to kids – Need to make it clear that the signer must be in the field – people are submitting applications for their 90 year old great-grandmothers, this is an abuse of the system.

 

I encourage anyone that cares about this issue or hunt opportunity in the future to attend this meeting. I would argue that mule deer are the most exclusive species in Arizona, other states offer comparable quality on some of our other species but our mule deer country is where the big battles are fought and are at the highest risk of corruption. The direction the ADA takes on this issue will lay the foundation for other things down the road and that will affect you and the other people you care about. We all need to support the ADA while they put the smackdown on the AZSFW. Sorry for another long post…

 

Ryan

[Showmethemoney]

Here is some food for thought for all you average joes. The AZGFD Commission is the sole decision maker on what organizations receive the commissioner tags. Those organizations submit to the department each year a request to be considered as a recepient of a coveted commissioner tag. Within those requests each organization must indicate how much money each tag that they are asking for will generate for the department. The organization must have some factual data to support their statements. Also in the application, the organization must disclose how they are going to use the tag (auction or raffle). So here is the fun part for all of you who think that the AZGFD is so innocent in this whole situation. All monies raised by the tag whether auctioned or raffled must be given to the department. At least that is what the organizations in AZ thought. As Kent has stated multiple times, that we must bring back all commissioner tags to AZ. Well average Joes, Your guiding light commission approved for the mule deer tag that is auctioned off by the mule deer foundation to add a 5% buyers premium, in which they (the mule deer foundation) could retain. No AZ organization was ever made aware of this and had gone on for 5 years (thats right 5 years). So take 5 years at an average of $175,000 and retain 5% for your organization that equals $43,750 to the Utah SFW/MDF expo. The Commission approved it and supported it. Doubt it ask Brian Wakling...... Of course when the AZ orgs found out they recinded that decision as the commission new that all the AZ orgs would ask for the same. So Average Joes, here is my question "Is your AZGFD Commission really looking out for your best interest? Here is another thought for you, Who determines how many tags are allocated each year? When you figure that one out ask yourself why those tags go up and down each year and if you are losing tags, Why?

[krp]

If I thought Ryan's guidelines would be the focus of the meeting, I'd show up in support of ADA, with a coffee can for 10.00 donations and my 10 spot the first in the bottom... if it's a damage control exercise and no direction, nope.

 

Showmethemoney, good info.

 

This Utah selling tag issue needs addressed and I imagine it won't be to hard to bring this to the commission and start a dialogue.

 

But this showcases the problem with the improprieties of sfw. They are the leaders of the orgs, control the commission review board and the Governors choice, control the super PAC that transfers the orgs voice and by proxy all sportsmens voice thru them to the legislature. They control the license plate money and who that money goes for conservation programs, They have a self proclaimed working relationship with DP and SFW... They have not attempted to rectify a real issue that we suffered from Nappy's commission, Utah SFW selling our tags and then attempted to follow the same tag control here in Az.

 

We can't move forward on these important issues until sfw is out of influence in the legislature and the commission.

 

Kent

[bonuspointjohn]

If I thought Ryan's guidelines would be the focus of the meeting, I'd show up in support of ADA, with a coffee can for 10.00 donations and my 10 spot the first in the bottom... if it's a damage control exercise and no direction, nope.

 

Showmethemoney, good info.

 

This Utah selling tag issue needs addressed and I imagine it won't be to hard to bring this to the commission and start a dialogue.

 

But this showcases the problem with the improprieties of sfw. They are the leaders of the orgs, control the commission review board and the Governors choice, control the super PAC that transfers the orgs voice and by proxy all sportsmens voice thru them to the legislature. They control the license plate money and who that money goes for conservation programs, They have a self proclaimed working relationship with DP and SFW... They have not attempted to rectify a real issue that we suffered from Nappy's commission, Utah SFW selling our tags and then attempted to follow the same tag control here in Az.

 

We can't move forward on these important issues until sfw is out of influence in the legislature and the commission.

 

Kent

I am breaking my own vow because of the direction that your post has taken Kent. 1) The SFW controls the commission?... nothing could be further from the truth. The Governor has appointed her choices... well before the review board came in. The SFW has no control of the tags that are given to the MDF. That call is by the commission and has been for years. I have no clue what relationship the MDF and Utah SFW have... but it does not involve anything in AZ. The license plate money is controlled by the 18 members of the AZSFWC board. They are representatives from the 18 member organization. 4 of which are on the AZSFW board and the rest from sportsmen's groups. You should really attempt to come to the ADA board meeting. Your conspiracy theories and statements are not even close to being on target. If you wish to do a service to those on this site, come to the meeting and lets have a civil discussion face to face. Regards BPJ...