Where do we go from here?

[archerycrazy]

Due to HB 2072 and the Weiers Memo discussions, it appears that a huge rift has developed in our community. There has been a lot of finger pointing and name calling. Some justified and some not so much. I am not chastizing anyone. We all have our own opinions and different ways to express them.

 

It is now time to end those discussions and focus on how we reunite our community. If we remain fractured, the anti's will overrun us and win.

 

I ask that all who became involved in the discussions on 2072 and the Weiers Memo to provide meaningful well thoughtout suggestions, so that we can move forward and learn from our experiences. Those who sat on the sidelines and watched us are welcome to provide input.

 

I for one would hope to see AZSFWC be reorganized under a new name and completely new leadership. It must have absolutely no affiliation with AZSFW.

 

I know that I may get slammed for my thoughts, I am prepared to alter them or defend them if constructive recommendations can be provided.

 

I did not and still do not agree with the decision that the Commission arrived at. I am however prepared to work to take corrective action.

 

Ok guys and gals, you are mad but engaged. Let's come up with something that we can all get behind.

 

George

[runningbird]

Great idea George! I was at the meeting on Wed. and am still in the cooling off period. Looking forward to some good responses from everyone here!

[DesertBull]

Cut off their money and they go away. Period.

 

Any organization or publication that supports them will not see a dime of my money.

[Swivelhead]

In the past I have been a proponent of AZSFW. Sent money and endorsed the cause. I encouraged friends to do the same, after all,sportsmen need representation in the legislature. Prior to the formation of AZSFW I was at the Boquillas ranch clean up where Chris Denham and others called an impromptu meeting to discuss the formation of AZSFW. The focus of the new group was to be sportsman representation at the legislature, a worthy endeavor.

 

HB2072 has revealed the mentality of the movers & shakers behind AZSFW, these people have an agenda and it is not mine. Ultimately, the groups that AZSFW claims to represent at the legislature will determine AZSFW's future. YVRGC and AES have apparently renounced their affiliation. If and when other groups follow that lead AZSFW will sink. In the end AZSFW will probably represent the ADA at the legislature. LOL

 

AZ sportsmen need a lobbying organization that is controlled and directed by the various outdoor/hunting organizations in our state. We must start this process over. Where do we start?

[azslim]

+1 on that, liked what I heard when it was being established, supported it, no longer.

 

I posted in the first thread that the numbers sounded like BS and I wanted specifics on how the money was going to be used not the general statements that were thrown out. I think after this any org with SFW in the name is going to have a tough row to hoe to garner support in this state.

[runningbird]

One thing that I keep noticing is if you look at the board of the different groups, you frequently see the same peoples names. . So what we have then is different organizations with the same agenda, and in some cases a self serving agenda.

[twigsnapper]

Having one consolidated voice for all the different critter groups(turkey, deer, antelope, elk, sheep, fishing) is a must. The critter groups are good at taking care of their own business but very week and under powered when it comes to fighting the bigger fights. Having representation for all sportsmans groups at state and federal levels is very expensive and takes a certain type. Don't know exactly what that is but we need to have a proactive and open dialog about how we can band together for the greater good of all sportsman and build a force that no environmentalist group even wants to mess with.

[.270]

Just like farming. When you get a field full of weeds you plow it under and replant. And involve anyone that enjoys the outdoors that can tolerate what others like to do without trying to change them. Anglers, birdwatchers, campers, hikers, etc. So they can see how they benefit from the thIngs we do. But don't let any of these career "politicians" join. Lark.

[elkaholic]

we need to know who stands where - do each of these organizations know what happened with 2072 and where they now stand .are they with us or are they with them - have they paid theeir dues and still support he very people who pulled this crap. we know AES AND YVRGC WITHDREW BUT DID THEY ALREADY DONATE MONEY FOR 2012

 

here a list of groups who openly joined

 

Arizona Deer Association (Platinum) -- on the fence

 

Arizona Big Horn Sheep Society (Platinum) - ?

 

Arizona Antelope Foundation (Silver)--?

 

Phoenix Chapter, Safari Club International (Silver)__?

 

Arizona Chapter, Safari Club International (Silver)__?

 

Tucson Chapter, Safari Club Inbternational (Silver)--?

 

Arizona Bowhunter's Association (Bronze)-- ?

 

Southern Arizona Wildlife Callers, Inc. (Bronze)__?

 

Arizona Predator Callers (Bronze)--?

 

Arizona Trapper's Association (Bronze)--?

 

Grand Canyon Hounds (Bronze)--?

 

Mogollon Sporting Association (Bronze)--?

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

Arizona ELk Society - B.S. NO MORE

 

Yuma Valley Rod and Gun Club-- B.S. NO MORE

 

 

i guess we can call it the first step.

 

i guess we need all the members of each group to decide - no standing on the fence - do they agrree with 2072 and what azsfw tried to do or are the insulted and upset it happened, and refuse to have them represent them anymore.

 

you either say - it ok - i still trust them with my money and the choices they make for me! or BS i want to think / speak for myself agin

 

I don't want to trust someone who just tried to backstab me and hasn't comforward to say anything - to explain or ??? guess they figure - if i dont reply it will all just go away and i can go back to business as usual. the silence on these issues is up to each group and to us .

 

pretty simple - sit and let it go - but ya better watch your back-

 

or change it!

 

 

I vote we change it before its to late - its already gone way past forget, We need to stop it now or welcome the sfw to Arizona

 

If you are in any of these organizations - please bring it to their attention and a vote and inform us here !!

 

 

somebody who knows how get LARK'S name put on the open seat for the commisssion reveiw board !

[archerycrazy]

At our November Board meeting the directors of YVRGC voted to eliminate funding to AZSFW/C. At our December club meeting the membership supported the Board. Earlier this month the President of YVRGC sent a letter ending our affiliation. I have heard that organizations besides YVRGC and AES have withheld funding. I will let those organizations speak for themselves.

[elkaholic]

what's wrong? - takin from another site -

 

The Mohave Sportsman Club Board, which knew nothing of the proposal like many groups, is going to take a wait and see attitude and see what rises from the ashes of this mess. no big deal for me as as far as I am concerned with the bill being dead, and those involved are not planning any kind of "resurrection" time to move on and keep working for wildlife and sportsmen in AZ.

 

Don Martin

 

Exactlly what azsfw wants and expects !!

[archerycrazy]

what's wrong? - takin from another site -

 

The Mohave Sportsman Club Board, which knew nothing of the proposal like many groups, is going to take a wait and see attitude and see what rises from the ashes of this mess. no big deal for me as as far as I am concerned with the bill being dead, and those involved are not planning any kind of "resurrection" time to move on and keep working for wildlife and sportsmen in AZ.

 

Don Martin

 

Exactlly what azsfw wants and expects !!

[archerycrazy]

I had hopes that this discussion would provide meaningful suggestions.

 

Anyone that thinks that HB 2072 is dead and gone doesn't know how AZSFW works. Even if a "Strike Everything" does not appear during this session, wait until next year. If AZSFW has set any semblance of 2072 as a primary goal, it will return next session in a different form.

 

Just take a look at HB 2235 from 2009. We jilled it. It came back the following year and SB 1200 Commission Recommendation Board. Passage of that bill required two votes. During the first voted, it was soundly defeated. Most legislators who opposed it left the chamber and a second voted was called for. Since many legislators who opposed it were already headed to other appointment the bill was passed. Just take a look at the legislatures video archives to see what occurred.

 

Be vigilant, very vigilant.

[audsley]

I've been wondering when somebody in this mob would ask the big question. If not AZSFW,then who? Thank you for finally asking it, Archerycrazy.

 

Before we try to decide where we're going next, let's take a look at where we've been. Maybe we can learn something. Here's what I know, or think I know:

 

When AZSFW was in its formative stage, with organizers touring the state and making their pitches for members and affiliates, I was an outspoken critic of their organizational plan, which gave policy and operational control to a handful of financial backers with no mechanism for accountability to the state's rank and file sportsmen. I questioned whether their agenda would serve the needs of most Arizona sportsmen or would it instead serve merely a select and affluent few. But a majority of the most vocal sportsmen, especially those in the sportsmen's conservation groups, felt differently about it. The sportsmen's conservation groups are more aware than the average hunter of the threats to the future of our wildlife and hunting heritage. But being men of action by nature, rather than policy wonks or political strategists, sportsmen are always happy to let others with different inclinations and aptitudes take over the task of haggling with politicians and bureaucrats so that sportsmen can keep going right on doing what's in their nature to do - raising money and putting sweat equity into projects that support bighorn sheep, turkeys, elk, antelope, deer and other species. Thus AZSFW was born, but not without certain key birth defects including lack of visibility and trust among the state's hunters.

 

AZSFW was initially financed by a handful of businessmen whose intention was to hand over the task of financial support to sportsmen once the organization got going. They had reckoned this might take 3 or 4 years. AZSFW made a serious attempt at a membership drive, charging $15 a year and even offering individuals commissions for signing up new members. If even one licensed hunter in 100 had joined, revenue from individual memberships would have been enough to sustain the organization. But very few signed up, so AZSFW soon took to holding its own fundraising events and relying more heavily on its affiliated organizations - the various single-species groups - for donations. That kept them going a while longer, but recently some of AZSFW's biggest backers among the sportsmen's groups announced they were going to stop contributing. I believe HB 2072, which would have brought a lot of money to the single species conservation groups, was a desperate last-ditch attempt to keep some money flowing to AZSFW. Yes, there were a lot of other beneficial deeds portrayed in that bill, but the circumstantial evidence of AZSFW's impending insolvency probably explains why it came when it did. Since I was not actually a part of that organization in any formal way, my explanation might differ a bit from that of some people who were more closely involved, but that's how it looked from where I sat.

 

So what does all this teach us? For one thing, whatever emotion inspires NRA members to keep sending in their dues checks does not seem to inhabit the hearts and minds of most Arizona sportsmen. Whoever has the gold makes the rules, so if everyone wants an organization that represents ALL of the state's sportsmen, then more of us will need to start digging into our pockets.

 

We can talk about transparency, trust, visibility and legitimacy of representation, and I'd even like to talk about the relationship between a sportsmen's advocacy group and our Game & Fish Commission, but first things first: a certain amount of money must be provided for any sportsmen's advocacy group to effectively provide certain services (i.e., skilled lobbying, public relations and communication to members, etc.), and much of that money must come voluntarily from the state's sportsmen as evidence of their support. That's how the NRA does it, and it works.

 

So before anyone starts designing the ideal organization - that's the fun part - do we think we could find a way for sportsmen to finance such a group and keep it going?

 

It's my belief that AZSFW could have worked well if the state's sportsmen had swarmed the organization at the beginning and essentially taken it over by paying a substantial share of the costs and demanding representation that reflected our contribution. We could have earned some ownership through our checkbooks and steered AZSFW toward being what I suspect we can all agree it should have been. But when we let someone else do all the heavy lifting, things will get done on their terms, not ours. I believe that is what we let happen.

[krp]

I appreciate your effort and that of YVGRC and AES... the reality is this is an private organization/special interest problem. That means the orgs have to take care of it, that means the leaders of the orgs have to disagree with SFW as a whole, that means the membership of the orgs have to disagree with SFW and force acceptance of their view or remove the leadership of their 'private' org... to then have a united front to oust SFW from the Az political and conservation voice.

 

These threads are being monitored, BPL is looking 20 times a day... no comments are coming from the leaderships except the two that have unaffiliated, those two will be left out to dry... No one will answer the simplest questions and their memberships aren't pressing them.

 

We are waiting to see if the orgs will clean their house, if not, I and others will come after all of you hard, we are the majority, we will not be screwed again. If you think we hate USO for what they did, that will look like sunday school...

 

Clean your house!!!!!!!!!

 

OUT!

 

Kent