New Minimum Draw Weight

[IA Born]

For the most part, I think its a great idea, but, like others have said, it should be limited to species. I have buddies back in Iowa (no age limit for kids) who take their 7-10 year old kids out archery hunting for those big midwestern whitetails. Inside of 20 yards, pulling 30-35 lbs, the kids are getting complete pass-through shots on does and a smaller Iowa doe is still bigger than any Coue's whitetail I've ever seen. For that matter, a "typical" Iowa doe is about the size of most "run-of-the-mill" muley bucks I've seen. Its up the parents and mentors to guide them on ethical shots based on the equipment set up. I don't think a 40+ yard shot at an elk with 30-40 pounds is going to be lethal. Maybe a 30 yard shot with 40 lbs will at least get both lungs, but again, its got to be up to us as parents and mentors to set ethical parameters. Some of the newer mechanical broadheads are designed to open with lower KE resulting from lower draw weights and I've seen them work from my buddies back in Iowa. A 20-30 yard lethal shot on javelina, Coue's whitetail, and many mule deer should not be a problem from a 30-35 lb draw weight, IMO. Elk and bison should definitely have a higher draw weight or I agree that we'll see more lost animals and discouraged youth.

 

I recently told my daughter that as soon as she turns 10 (she'll be 8 this April and is pulling 18 pounds on her Nuclear Ice), I'll get her an archery tag if she can pull the minimum weight and she practices consistently (likely to upgrade from the Nuclear Ice at that point), but I'd rather her be closer to 35 lbs, if possible. Will I let her take a 40 yard shot? NOT likely. 30 yard shot? Depends on the circumstances and the species. 20 yards or less? Let it fly!

[AZP&Y]

Yote,

 

I'm not against kids hunting, start them young! Teach them right!

 

Why have statutes,rules,regulations if they aren't enforceable? Am I saying, write a ticket to a kid for a bow that's at 29lb draw? Heck no! I'm saying create a minimum that is good for all species if that is what is in the best interest of ALL game that we hunt. If it is 30 for javelina then so be it. 40 for elk. What used to be 50 for buffalo is now 40?

 

Donnie hit it on the head!

we are not the most important part of conservation, the wildlife is.

 

Also, these comparisons of big game species vs. one another or bullet calibers vs. arrows (regardless of draw) seems to cloud what really is at stake here. A good clean kill with archery equipment. AZ G & F needs to create some real data. Let's start collecting this information so informed decisons can be made for the future of Arizona's Big game.

 

AzP&Y

[DesertBull]

WOW! I've never seen a group so against youth hunters! Remember when you learned to drive a car? You may have been new to it, but you were most likely a heck of a lot safer behind the wheel then you are now. The reason is that you aren't thrown by all the bad habits you've gained since you've gotten "better". A kid with a 30# bow is not our worst enemy as a hunter or a conservationist. Yes some kids are going to wound animals, but so are some of the guys who've commented above! It's part of the game, we need to get together as hunters, not tear apart. A stupid, unenforcable rule like this doesn't matter one bit, whens the last time you saw a Game warden with a bow scale? Honestly even if he had one, what kind of a prick is going to write a kid a ticket because his bow is 29pounds, or 39 pounds for that matter? You guys have go to be kidding me!? KE requirements? No expandables? Different weights for different species? I shot my first deer, a big bodied eastern whitetail with a 23# browning fox at 11 yards. Arrow went all the way through his lungs and burried on the opposite side. DEAD DEER = HAPPY KID who stuck with bowhunting forever after that. The law at the time was that the bow had to "cast an arrow 130 yards" so we staked out a gravel road and I let one fly.... 98 yards. The lucky thing was, my dad wasn't an idiot, he knew I was a heck of a good shot as long as shots were kept close and he let his 7 year old fall in love with the sport, I'm forever grateful for that. Lets worry a little more about the things that matter and leave these kids alone, instead of spending your time complaining, find a kid with a 30 pound bow and teach him to shoot it, teach him to love it, and take him bowhunting!!!

 

 

I wasn't aware that believing mechanical heads shouldn't be used with a 30lb bow equate to hating kids. thanks for the lesson.

[Tines]

Problem is you can't regulate ethics. So the dept SHOULD step in and do whats best for the animals. I agree that technology has advanced, in turn making bows much more effective. But there are too many variables to consider when making a flat 30lb minimum requirement.

 

We can all sit around and talk about how important it is to teach proper ethics (which I totally agree with) but we still need black and white laws to clarify. It's in the best interest of the animal, not the hunter. After-all, we're supposed to be "managing wildlife for tomorrow", not today.

 

IMO, buffalo needs to be 50lbs. Elk at LEAST 40lbs.

[Ron G.]

I am very against this... a coues can drop its full body height at 20yds on a 40# draw wieght...I have video to prove it... these animals are not 3D targets... Just saying.

 

Gino, I've had a coues duck my arrow out of a bow set at 62# at 17 yards before... At first I thought I hit high, but then realized I trimmed some hair off the top of his back. I was kicking myself for not holding lower on him, but after thinking about it I might have just hit his backstrap had I been holding lower. I'd rather have had the haircut than a high body hit...

 

Almost anything can happen in archery... Twig deflects an arrow and you get a bad hit, animal jumps the string and you hit too far back or miss.

 

I say good for lowering it to allow 10 year olds to go after pigs and deer. I'm not sure I'd even put my 10 year old in for archery elk unless they were able to pull back 45+ lbs. Even then it'd probably only be sitting ground blinds or something close over water... I say let the people make the decisions, not the govt.

 

Thanks for letting us know Darr!

 

Ron

[glasmup]

I for one am against it. My 8 yr old little girl is shooting her bow and does pretty well but I will not let her hunt with it till she is at 40 lbs. Two holes are better than one!!!! And 30 lbs is way too light for elk. JMO

[bobbyo]

This whole minimum poundage requirement is silly. Why have any minimum? A bow poundage really means nothing. A 30 pound bow from todays tech can out preform my superjuiced mach 1 with extra long overdraw and 21 inch arrows from the 80s. So I can use a 15 year old bow set at 40#, BUT NOT A SUPER EFFICIENT BOW SET AT 30# FROM TODAY. IT IS RIDICULOUS to use poundage as your only parameter. Unless G+F makes everyone shoot their rig into penetration jello they should just drop the whole rule. In the end we have to police ourselves. Lets face it most 10 year old's are not mature enough to go on a elk hunt. If they are they can probably pull back more than 30 or even 40 and the person taking them should know it.

Bob

[girlbowhunter]

I always thought that the old weight was 45 lbs which I shoot and 50 on buffalo. I do not think 30 lbs is enough for shooting big game not even javalina they have very tough thick skin that is tough to penetrate. I guess maybe some of the newer compound bows with a faster F.P.S. it might be possible but I would not even try less than 45 lbs with my Mathews Outback over 40yards. Since they do not specify which bows I could not imagine a 30 lb recurve shooting a big game animal over 30 yards.

[buffhunter]

30 pounds? I disagree. I watched my wife stick a bull in the lungs at 50 yards last year. Her bow was set at 48 pounds. Never found the bull. I watched in my 10x El's as it hit perfectly behind the shoulder. Only 12 inches of the arrow went in.

 

More poundage is better on the low end of things IMO.

The shot was not in the lungs because 12in of penetration is in far enough to get both lungs. My wife had a clean passthrough at 52 yards on her bull with a 24in draw length and pulling 48# but she was shooting a rocket ultimate steel fixed head and took out one rib on the way in and one on the way out.

 

The problem is the new trend toward super lightweight arrows for a flatter trajectory. When you are flinging the lightest arrow combination you can, it doesnt matter if its going 300fps. You're not going to get the same penetration as a heavy arrow going 200fps.

 

Other keys to penetration are using a 2 bladed broadhead, and trying to get weight farther forward of the middle of the shaft. With the right setup you can get the penetration you need.

 

Dr. Ashby has some great studies on arrow penetration. They can all be found on the web.

 

+++++++1 People do not understand this

 

 

I am very against this... a coues can drop its full body height at 20yds on a 40# draw wieght...I have video to prove it... these animals are not 3D targets... Just saying.

 

 

I have seen a coues jump a string at 20 yards with a bow shooting 320fps.

 

 

My point is people have been killing animals for years with recurves shooting arrows far less than 150fps. It all comes down to becoming a hunter and getting close and shot placement. And gear up right fixede heads and heavier aarrows!!!!!!!!!

[elpepe25]

ran some interesting hypothetical numbers on Archers advantage and the archery program last night. At 30 lbs w/ a 23-23 in draw on a hypothetical mathews ignition with a Gold tip 3555 arrow and 100 gr broadhead i was getting 16 lbs of kinetic energy at the bow. My pellet gun delivers the same kinetic energy. Do i believe this can take a coues or a pig, yes, but circumstances NEED to be ideal. However using the same arrow and going up to 40 lbs yielded only 21 lbs of KE. I say user beware, stay away from bones, any questionable distance or shot placement can lead to terrible results.

 

I bowhunted at the age of 10 and had no issues meeting the standard of 40 lbs at that time. Did i shoot a lot, yes. Did i shoot at animals over 20 yards, no. My little Alpine colt with a fixed 2 blade broadhead managed to kill a mule deer and that was 1994 technology.

[ruthunter]

I killed my first archery mule deer buck at the age of 10 with a 40lb pse scamp. My dad had me in a ground blind on water in the kaibab and the buck literally walked within 8 yards of my blind and my arrow blew straight threw both lungs and landed in the dirt on the other side. I believe 30lbs can kill just as well as 40 lbs but i think YARDAGE is the most important factor. My son will be hunting this year and he is pulling 40lbs and i wont let him shoot past 30 yds. He shoots 3 times a week and can probably out shoot most adults at 20 yds.

[shanehamblin]

Whether its 350fps or 200fps thru the guts or the boiler room it wont make a difference either way, you have a wounded or dead animal. Shoot a lot, be passionate and learn from your mistakes. I like the change for those who understand their limits. Good luck to all the youngsters that are benifited by this.

[CouesFanatic]

30 pounds? I disagree. I watched my wife stick a bull in the lungs at 50 yards last year. Her bow was set at 48 pounds. Never found the bull. I watched in my 10x El's as it hit perfectly behind the shoulder. Only 12 inches of the arrow went in.

 

More poundage is better on the low end of things IMO.

The shot was not in the lungs because 12in of penetration is in far enough to get both lungs. My wife had a clean passthrough at 52 yards on her bull with a 24in draw length and pulling 48# but she was shooting a rocket ultimate steel fixed head and took out one rib on the way in and one on the way out.

 

[

 

The shot was in the lungs. I watched it from 50 yards with my Swarovski 10 x 42's. I watched the blood pour out the side. I killed a bull the day before that I hit in the exact same spot. It may be hard to believe, but it changed my opinion about poundage. Next time she will be pulling more weight. That was the most weight her bow could go up to. She was shooting WackEm broadheads. Which i've killed 3 bulls with em and had great success.

[tjhunt2]

I support most of azgfd's rulings and believe they do a good job manageing our wildlife but I have to say I do not like them dropping the minimum draw weight to 30lbs. I've shot my share of big game with a bow and I can tell you it just doesn't make good sense in my book. The kids that are pulling 30lbs are way to young to be shooting at big game. Please, as a parent, let them grow a little stronger. I would like to hear azgfd's facts that support such a reduced poundage in weight. jmo

 

TJ

 

 

[donniedent]

I killed my first archery mule deer buck at the age of 10 with a 40lb pse scamp. My dad had me in a ground blind on water in the kaibab and the buck literally walked within 8 yards of my blind and my arrow blew straight threw both lungs and landed in the dirt on the other side. I believe 30lbs can kill just as well as 40 lbs but i think YARDAGE is the most important factor. My son will be hunting this year and he is pulling 40lbs and i wont let him shoot past 30 yds. He shoots 3 times a week and can probably out shoot most adults at 20 yds.

 

 

You know what, if your boy turns out to be the hunting machines you and your brother are, deer need to be fearful. You guys deffinately don't fall into the 80% I mentioned earlier. I agree wholeheartedly, start them young! Unfortunately I think you are the exception. I think if a dad will shoot 80 yds. with broadheads dulled down at 20 yds in the backyard at a moving muley, what will he teach his kid? Most parents will not be as dedicated as guys like you and me. And I don't trust such a valuable rescource to people that can't even teach their kids to tie their shoes.