matthewp45 Report post Posted July 2, 2012 I am pretty sure they only take the first two choices for max bonus point holders. If I repeated some info I am sorry I did not see the second page. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azoutlaw Report post Posted July 28, 2012 Bravo, at 33 years old (according to your profile), unless your parents started applying for you as an infant, odds are you have a long ways to go. I would wait to draw the tag first instead of jinxing ones self. My thoughts exactly. You look pretty young to have enough sheep points to even consider looking for a guide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Report post Posted August 4, 2012 From talking to someone that has very reliable information, there are around 150-180 people that applied last year that had max points. A real close family friend dropped his name in the bucket for the 45th year in a row with out getting drawn. In the sheep draw the first thing they do is take all of the max bonus point holders and put them all in the draw first. Then they draw 20% of all the sheep tags so probably 19 guys out of 150 will get a tag. Then once 20% of the total tags are drawn they put all of the rest of us in for 80% of the tags. It will take 8 or 9 years for all current max bonus point holders to be drawn and i believe it is somewhere around 25 or 26 bonus points? (do not quote me on those numbers) Once all of those are drawn then it goes down to the guys that currently have one less than max points and God only knows how many that is. So even if you have 20-22 bonus points you will be in the exact same boat as somebody with 1 bonus point and it could be 30 years before they get to your bonus point number at age 33. I think I would wait until I got drawn before asking about Outfitters because you may have a long time to go. Sorry I am a nerd and studied up on this because sheep are the ultimate to me. Good luck in the draw. Then how would someone not in the max pool, draw a sheep tag in the elite units? It happens often, does it not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billrquimby Report post Posted August 4, 2012 Check out who has been doing the Governor's tags. I can't remember the one guy but the other I think was Chris Harlow. Let us know if this is correct. BTW: you can't be talking this kind of smack unless you have max bonus points. I do and have been waiting 30 years! It took me 39 consecutive years of applying before I drew my tag. Bravo must be older than his photo indicates. Bill Qluimby 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted August 4, 2012 From talking to someone that has very reliable information, there are around 150-180 people that applied last year that had max points. A real close family friend dropped his name in the bucket for the 45th year in a row with out getting drawn. In the sheep draw the first thing they do is take all of the max bonus point holders and put them all in the draw first. Then they draw 20% of all the sheep tags so probably 19 guys out of 150 will get a tag. Then once 20% of the total tags are drawn they put all of the rest of us in for 80% of the tags. It will take 8 or 9 years for all current max bonus point holders to be drawn and i believe it is somewhere around 25 or 26 bonus points? (do not quote me on those numbers) Once all of those are drawn then it goes down to the guys that currently have one less than max points and God only knows how many that is. So even if you have 20-22 bonus points you will be in the exact same boat as somebody with 1 bonus point and it could be 30 years before they get to your bonus point number at age 33. I think I would wait until I got drawn before asking about Outfitters because you may have a long time to go. Sorry I am a nerd and studied up on this because sheep are the ultimate to me. Good luck in the draw. Here's the actual RULE that regulates the sheep permits: a. The Department shall reserve a maximum of 20% of the hunt permit-tags for each hunt number for antelope, bear, deer, elk, javelina, and turkey to issue to individuals and groups that have bonus points. The Department shall reserve a maximum of 20% of the hunt permit tags for all hunt numbers combined statewide for bighorn sheep and buffalo to issue to individuals and groups that have bonus points. D. The Department shall not make available more than one hunt permit-tag or 10% of the total hunt permit-tags, whichever is greater, for bighorn sheep or buffalo in any draw to nonresidents. The Department shall not make available more than 50% nor more than two bighorn sheep or buffalo hunt permit-tags of the total in any hunt number to nonresidents. Once the 20% pass is done, ALL applicants are basically on equal footing and issued NEW random numbers for as many BPs as they have.The LOWEST number is then used to determine who gets the remaining 80% of the tags in the 1-2 pass. So ANYONE, regardless of how many BPs they have, can win the "lotto" with a low number. The only thing the BPs do at this stage is provide more chances to get that low number. For a NR, however, if the 10% cap was hit during the bonus point run, they're out of luck in the 1-2 pass. I personally know one guy who moved here from Alaska and applied as soon as he was a legal resident. He drew a permit with NO BPs and killed a represenative ram near Gila Bend. And I just drew SECOND choice with 21 points. Didn't even have the Hunter Ed point! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Tub Report post Posted August 5, 2012 Tony: don't break you arm like that other old guy! I am not sure they limit the 20% draw to 1-2. I think they look at all five so you better not put down numbers that you would not be happy with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SirRoyal Report post Posted August 5, 2012 Good post Outdoor Writer! You explained the process perfectly. I drew my Sheep Tag with 11 points! So Bravo stay positive , Believe it and your dream sheep hunt will happen . Start your interviews! Side note : Realists tend to be negative! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpotNStalk Report post Posted August 5, 2012 Bravo, at 33 years old (according to your profile), unless your parents started applying for you as an infant, odds are you have a long ways to go. I would wait to draw the tag first instead of jinxing ones self. My thoughts exactly. You look pretty young to have enough sheep points to even consider looking for a guide. You throw your name in the hat like everybody else and you never know what can happen! I drew my sheep tag in 2008 when I was 33, the first time I ever applied. 0 bonus pts! Not even a hunter ed pt! Good Luck Bravo in future draws. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewp45 Report post Posted August 5, 2012 I know a person can draw a tag the first year they put in. Last year I helped a nice young man at the age of 15 that got drawn on his second year putting in the draw. I was just saying if you have max points your odds go from AZ Lotto odds down to 1 in 6 or 7. Another one of my hunting buddies dad has been putting in for 46 years and has max points except they would not honor his hunter education certificate because it was before some date and they did not have any records of any of those classes. So he had been putting in for that long but did not have max points because the game and fish did not honor his certificate which was laminated with the governors signature and everything to make it totally legite. So this year I finally talked him into it and got him to understand what he was missing out on and he did the next course available and now has max points. So I guess my point is to have max points you must have your loyalty point and your hunters education point along with your accumulated points from not being drawn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted August 5, 2012 Tony: don't break you arm like that other old guy! I am not sure they limit the 20% draw to 1-2. I think they look at all five so you better not put down numbers that you would not be happy with. Nope. No different than any other draw; first pass is 1-2 choices only. With so few permits for sheep, there's likely no second draw that considers the last three choices. For that reason, I never have filled out those choices. matthewp45, I had the same problem with the hunter ed point. Not only did I go through the class in the 1970s, but I was an INSTRUCTOR, both here and later in Colorado when I lived there for three years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kwp Report post Posted August 5, 2012 According to Game & Fish data, the max number of Bonus Points for sheep in the 2012 draw was 23. There were 196 applicants with 23 points and 19 got drawn in the max bp draw and 4 others got drawn in the next draw. The next most successful group of applicants were those with 11 points who drew 8 tags. Also, there was 1 person with 0 points drawn and 3 people with only 1 point drawn. The only group that didn't get a tag were those with 4 bonus points. Every other bonus point group (0-23) got at least 1 tag. Although the odds are quite low, there's still a chance no matter how many bonus points you have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted August 5, 2012 Big Tub, I just reread what you wrote. When I replied the first time, I misread it as the 1-2 pass and not the BP phase. I still think it's only 1-2 choices, but you might be correct; I'll check this week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted August 5, 2012 Big Tub, Here ya go from the AZ G&F website: First Pass (20% Bonus Point) Twenty percent of authorized hunt permit-tags in each hunt number for deer, antelope, elk, turkey, javelina, and spring bear may be issued in this pass. Twenty percent of the total authorized hunt permit-tags (all hunt numbers combined) for both bighorn sheep and buffalo may be issued. Although 20 percent are available, the 10% nonresident caps are still in effect. Each valid application is assigned the lowest random number from those generated for that application. The application file for each species is sorted by group bonus points in descending sequence and then by random number within the bonus point groupings. In the Bonus Pass, the first and second hunt choices for all applications with maximum bonus points are looked at first. If permits are still available from the 20% allocation, then the next lower bonus point category is looked at; and so on, until all of the 20% allocation is issued or until all applications with 1 or more bonus points are read. Applications with zero bonus points will not be included in the 20% Bonus Pass of the Draw. As each application is read, the first and then second hunt choices are checked to see if there are any permits available as part of the 20% bonus point allocation. If there are enough permits available for each applicant on the application without exceeding the 20% allocation or the nonresident cap, the permits are issued to that application. If not, the next application is read and the first and second hunt choices are checked until the entire application file is read. Any unissued permits from the "bonus point pass" will be returned to the available permits for each hunt. The Drawing will then continue to the next two passes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Tub Report post Posted August 5, 2012 Thanks. With only 19 delta, I am back up to 10 years! DANG! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Don Martin Report post Posted January 19, 2013 Brian is right on in his assessment of the 20% pass rule on sheep in AZ! If you are in the max bonus point pool for sheep, you'll actually get two chances to draw a sheep tag. First one will be during the 20% pass draw, the other in the regular draw. Alll the rest of us poor saps only get one crack, the regular draw. Don Martin Hunter Education Instructor Kingman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
