Huachuca Road closures

[bobbyo]

No thanks. I will keep my ethics and my job. You can keep the sixer. As a matter of fact, I will buy the sixer if you're down in my neck of the woods.

Just joking Bro. I don't mind walking in the most beautiful valley in the world.

[neb]

www.fs.fed.us/nepa/nepa_project_exp.php?project=36560

The Forest Service has proposed closing 150+ miles of roads in the Huachuca Mountains Coronado National Forest. The comment period goes into February and the closures are planned for early 2013. Most closures south of the Huachucas to the border (Unit 35A) are roads that have been present for decades and are used by hunters and Border Patrol extensively. I would encourage anyone with an interest to review and comment on this plan. Absent a dramatic response from those concerned with these closures it will happen. I have been hunting this area since the mid seventies and have seen dramatic closures of access on both sides of the Huachucas from Wilderness designation; Arizona trail closure and administrative blockages by the Forest Service. I would strongly encourage opposition to these proposed closures.

Thanks,

Nathan Beneze

I thought I would send a follow up note after my contacts with the Border Patrol today.

I called the Border Patrol today and struggled through 3 underlings to get to the “Public Information Officer” (at 520-748-3000) at the District Office of the Tucson District to ask about the BP input and policy/advisement on the proposed Forest service road closures in the Huachucas and access issues for the ranch road. You’d think I was calling to ask if the were seeing Martians....... the P.I.O. said “ I don’t know anything about proposed road closures or the Forest Service plan” and “This is the first I’ve heard about this plan” and several times referred me to the Forest Service for any questions. I left my number with her and asked if she could check on this issue and get back to me.

None of the people I talked to would or could give any info at all. The thought that the Border Patrol would not be intimately involved in the closures of 150 miles of roads within 20-30 miles of the Border is mind boggling to me. Maybe I just hit an isolated pocket of incompetence, but of the 4 people I spoke to , none would comment or acted like they knew anything about the proposed road closures.

Nathan Beneze

[NOFX]

1326250292[/url]' post='288744']

I spend a lot of time hunting in the San Pedro Riparian Preserve. This area is closed to ALL motorized vehicular traffic so we walk or bike in several miles each way. The access points are all locked and well signed to make it clear that no motorized vehicles are allowed...but what they really mean is no motorized access to hunters unless you have connections. If you are with BLM, boarder Patrol, or Sherriff Department you can get a key. If you have a friend who works for any of these groups you can get a key. If you need to study or photograph birds, you can get a key. It is amazing how many BP agents, BLM employees, and their friends need to work in the area during January, all the while they take their private vehicles and bows to work with them and camo is their uniform. Somehow hunters vehicles must be more environmentally damaging than the vehicles of these other interested parties. I don't mind vehicle access to these areas being shut off, but let's all play by the same rules.

Rest assured, if these roads are restricted, it will not be to all hunters, just those who are not well connected. You will be able to still hunt your favorite spots if you are willing to work hard enough to hike in. Once you get there you will be able to share it with the friends, neighbors and family of the chosen few who have been blessed with keys and are able to drive in.

 

Im calling BS on this. I am not saying it never has happend, but I work in the Riparian area EVERY DAY. I have NEVER seen a off duty BP, Sheriff or BLM employee in their personal vehicle hunting behind locked gates. Also those keys are accounted for pretty hard (I have one that is inventoried pretty regularly) so I doubt they are being given away to their friends. I do know some that hunt it, but they walk in, just like you or I. The reason that there is so much vehicle traffic in that area is because smugglers use those areas to drive around the checkpoints and the SD and BP work the area to partol the area for them. Yes, it is true that occasionaly BLM will allow biologists or others in there in their private vehicles but I personally cannot comment on that. If you ever see a BP or deputy or BLM hunting either on-duty or off duty in their private vehicle, I would suggest that you call BLM dipatch or their respective agency and they can be held responsible for it.

 

You can call BS on this, if you want. I am not saying that this is an open highway of hunting vehicles, I am just saying it happens, and it is not a rarity when it does. Some of the people who have done, and still do this are friends and I am not wanting to cause them any problems.

My pointis simple. If it is in the public's best interest to close a road, close it to all, official and non official vehicles. If the use of a road is not damaging to an area, let the road be open. Keys are inventoried, and regulations are in place, but people will be human and things happen. Some gates also have combination locks on them rather than locks with inventoried keys.

You say you work in there everyday. Will you honestly say that you don't know of employees who ever check their trail cams or did a little shed hunting during their lunch break? I have no problem with them doing this, heck I enjoy seeing the pictures and sheds. However, they have benefitted from vehicle access that is denied to others.

One other point, if driving in the closed area is harmful, why would BLM build a new building two miles past the locked gates?

I am not looking to cause problems for anybody here. I am just saying that we already have closed/restricted roads and on those roads there is traffic that is official, unofficial, and illegal. If they are to be closed, close them completely, if use is going to be allowed by some, allow it by all.

Right or wrong, it's just my opinion.

 

Im calling BS on this also. You may have heard rumors from friends. Thats a pretty small community of people your talkin about, so your not protecting anyone, your just accusin. I think that someone who works in the area every day is a pretty creditable source. I used to work down there and I also had the same experience as Bradne. I dont know him, but I havent worked there in a while. Anyway, you better be dam sure you know what your talkin about before you start slingin poo. There are alot of really good people that work down there. Just because an employee that works in the area kills a good buck doesnt mean he cheated, lied, broke the law, and used keys/special privledges. You really dont know what you are talkin about.

[NOFX]

"You say you work in there everyday. Will you honestly say that you don't know of employees who ever check their trail cams or did a little shed hunting during their lunch break? I have no problem with them doing this, heck I enjoy seeing the pictures and sheds. However, they have benefitted from vehicle access that is denied to others."

 

My profession puts me in primo hunting country pretty regularly. I keep my eyes open and find great hunting spots. My hunting hobby definitely benefits from my profession, and the only way it wouldn't is if I closed my eyes. Lastly your argument sounds a little whiney and liberal. Its not fair is it? Get a new job.

[bradne]

neb,

 

Sorry about your experience with the guys that answered the phone. Check your PMs please.

[audsley]

Neb,

 

Glad to see you at today's forest service meeting. Wish there had been more hunters. I'm the one who was reminding the forest supervisor that his agency has a Congressionally mandated mission to provide recreation, among other things, for the American people, and if they forget that people might start asking why we're keeping all this land in government hands if it isn't being used and enjoyed by the people. Some who attended today's meeting would like to change the mission of the national forest to make it more like a national park. Looks like we have our work cut out for us.

[Pine Donkey]

NOFX, I appreciate your perspective on this post. I feel the need to address some of your comments. First off, you say my comments sound a little whiney and liberal. Whiney is a subjective term, and up to each individual's interpretation, so maybe it was a bit whiney. In applying the term liberal to me or my beliefs, you missed by a long way. In fact, it is my disdain of an every growing Federal Government and its continual barrage of new regulations to control the people, that caused me to make my ranting first post.

In my first post I admittedly, did a poor job expressing my feelings. First of all, in no way do I believe that all or even the majority of the people that work for the land, or law enforcement agencies, are accessing these areas illegally, or allowing others to do it, but some do and have. Next, the San Pedro Riparian Area is not the only place this is happening. I have seen first hand, and heard stories of similar things happening beyond locked Forest Service gates.

You mentioned that your job puts you in some prime hunting areas, and that your hobby benefits from your job. I see this as a good thing. I know many very dedicated people who do the same thing. I appreciate all they do in their professional careers to maintain, promote, protect, and improve our public lands. Many have chosen their career because of their love for the land, the animals, and the outdoors. I hope working there on a daily basis provides them with great job satisfaction in these times of frozen payrolls and shrinking agency budgets.

As far as the points of my post, that I have reiterated in subsequent posts of this thread: if it is good for an area to close a road, then close it completely. If it is closed to the public, but open to "official" or " special" use, the area will be accessed by others, because it is virtually impossible to control and enforce the limited access. Some who work hard to hike into their hunting area will be joined at times by others who did not have to do the same work.

You indicated that my opinions are based on rumors I have heard from friends. That is just an incorrect statement of convenience. My opinions are based on my experiences. Since my first post in this thread I have exchanged PM's with some who work in the Riparian area on a regular basis. I have provided specifics, including names, situations, and locations. I will limit my response here to a few specific examples that have happened in the last few weeks. I have spent several full days, dark to dark, in there this January.

Yesterday, we went in before first light. When we were about 2.5 miles past the gate, we could hear a vehicle coming in. it sounded like it was a diesel truck pulling a stock trailer from all the rattling and clanking noise. It stopped at a developed area 2 miles in. Later I heard quads driving around the area, so maybe it was pulling a quad trailer. In the afternoon, we heard quads or motorcycles near us. I think they were riding on the old railroad bed. It sounded like they were racing.

Last weekend at dusk, we were headed out and about a mile from the gate when a couple guys pulled up in a private vehicle, and stopped to talk. They had been looking for animals driving the roads and the old railroad. They asked if we had any luck, and what we had seen, they shared what they had seen, then offered us a ride out as they left. They had used a key to get in there.

The week before, as we came through the developed area, 2 miles from the gate, late on a Sunday afternoon, there was a private vehicle parked alongside the road. Later, at the gate, we ran into an old friend. He was driving down the highway, saw our truck, and stopped. We BSed for a while. At one point in the conversation he questioned if his key still worked in the gate lock. He took it out, tried it, and it worked. This person retired about 6 years ago, and has never worked for a land or law enforcement agency, but he had the key through his job.

These are just my most recent incidents that have helped me form my opinion. There are many more over the years, and I am sure there will be others in the future. The Riparian area is locked up and there are not many people in there, this is one reason i enjoy hunting it so much, however, to believe that the motorized access is limited to official business only is quite naive. If additional areas are locked, like the proposal in the Huachucas, there will be some who work hard to hike into the area only to find others who drove in.

Again, if he closing of a road is good for an area, close it completely. Limiting access to official business only does not work. In the riparian area keys are inventoried, but there are still some official copies that are out there unaccounted for. I also suspect unauthorized copies have been made along he way. Some of the gates have the keyed lock on them as well as a combination lock (BP access maybe). Combinations are notoriously easy to distribute, and soon it is almost impossible track who may have them. There is at lease one gate that has a third lock on the chain. This lock belongs to a private individual. Additionally. There is at least one remote gate without a lock on it.

Hopefully someday we will run into ech other on a hillside and we can share some stories and our opinions. Until then, take care and good hunting.

[neb]

Neb,

 

Glad to see you at today's forest service meeting. Wish there had been more hunters. I'm the one who was reminding the forest supervisor that his agency has a Congressionally mandated mission to provide recreation, among other things, for the American people, and if they forget that people might start asking why we're keeping all this land in government hands if it isn't being used and enjoyed by the people. Some who attended today's meeting would like to change the mission of the national forest to make it more like a national park. Looks like we have our work cut out for us.

 

 

Audsley,

Thanks but that was my Son who was there with my Daughter for me. I am signed up for the CAT group for the Sierra Vista area and will be down for the rest of the meetings. We are getting more reps in the groups from the Sierra Vista Whitetail club (Chris Sterner- president sterner12345@msn.com) and a rep from the gold prospectors (Huachuca Prospectors Assn.). We are actively trying to get more specific input from hunters and others on specifics of the roads. I am very familiar with nearly all of the roads from Montezuma Pass to the Canelo/west gate area but don't know the roads involved to the north west. We've been hunting ,camping atc. in this area since the early 70's and I went to High School in Sierra Vista. The huachuca Whitetail club is having it's annual banquet at our ranch house near Parker Canyon Lake. Let me know if you have an interest in coming by.

Nathan Beneze