HB 2072 Sale of big game tags

[CouesWhitetail]

Well I guess we can see where Amanda stands on this, since she is pimping AZSFW's talking points to us...

 

 

Actually, as I posted before, I haven't decided on this yet. When making a decision about this, I think it's important to get as many facts as possible. I think it's important to hear from lots of hunters, the AGFD commission, other sportsmens groups as well as the people who created this bill. I expect to be attending a meeting next week with the sportsmens groups to discuss this issue.

[Jeff Welker]

Again Respectfully: Guys, who is gathering information and looking at all the variables and who is just firing off accusations and pointing fingers and calling names? I for one am gathering/learning as much as I can before making my decision. I am also not going to start "mucking" this debate up with stuff that is not relevant to this topic. Is anyone else gathering intel like I have been? Lets get to the bottom of this. Come on guys we are all in this together. I dont know much about AZSFW but I know there are some very smart/wise/old veteran type guys involved and some guys who have dedicated more volunteer time to preserving wildlife and our hunting tradition than this whole discussion board put together. I am not taking sides (yet) but I urge you to gather facts and make a very informed decision based on actual facts rather than knee jerk reaction.

 

Maybe start with this: positives for wildlife and negatives for wildlife...........

Jay,

I have alot of respect for the slow approach, find the facts, get to the bottom of the bill and weigh the pros and cons.

Problem is when you get thrown a fastball how much time do you really have to analyze? The fact that this bill got put on a fast track with little to no warning to those whom it will affect throws a great big caution light upm maybe even a flashing red light.

Why not slow the process down and give those affected time to digest the information? Maybe even give some input on what they would like to see?

Two people on this site who are pretty well versed Tony and Bill seem to be pretty keen on the dos and don'ts and they seem skeptical as have others who frequent this site.

 

I agree, lets take the time to find the facts, but what kind of time do we have???

Respectfully,

Jeff

 

From one Jeff to another. You are absolutely correct that a bill being pushed through via emergency measure or other means does not give anyone much time to research the facts and make an informed decision. Accordingly, I would hope opposition to this bill would be based upon the salient rationale that we have not been given enough time to reasonably learn about this bill and arrive at an informed decision.

 

For folks on this board or anywhere else to post uniformed opinions that (in some cases) are clearly nothing more than personal expressions of political bias or unhappy rhetoric does not help the cause of all hunters and outdoorsmen in this great state. Name calling and infighting amongst the ranks will continue to get us labeled as an unorganized group of unhappy campers that can't control itself enough to form a unified position on anything. Admittedly, consolidating the varied user interests of all the outdoor resources managed by AZGFD and the legislature is a daunting task. Each subgroup (i.e. hunters, fishers, landowners, etc) have different priorities and achieving consensus for the purpose of influencing legislation and policy would be very difficult. However, until we become a more organized and united group, we will continue to be frustrated and likely get the short end of the stick. Can you imagine what great things could be accomplished if the outdoors folks could create a relationship with the ranchers and landowners in this state?

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Bonuspoint couple of what I think are legit questions:

 

Has the "qualifying Organization" already been determined? I mean, if I had an organization that "qualified" could they become the "underwiter" for this program?

 

What plans would this organization have that could possible reliquish the death grip some have on access to public lands that hasn't already been pesued?

 

What guarantees do we have that it won't be run like the Utah Fiasco??

[AZLance]

Guys, here is the link to every representative's email and phone number.

 

Lets get this started! Contacting the G&F commision is too late! Call and e-mail your representatives, and send this to all your hunting buddies!

 

Representatives Emails

[billrquimby]

"Two people on this site who are pretty well versed Tony and Bill seem to be pretty keen on the dos and don'ts and they seem skeptical as have others who frequent this site."

 

I have taken no position on the bill, other than saying I believe profits from auctions and raffles of hunting tags should go to our wildlife agency and not private groups. I only skimmed the bill and did not see provisions for audits -- with tough penalties for misuse -- to make certain private groups use the money properly. Such provisions may be there, but I didn't notice them in my first reading.

 

Also, I stand by my belief that the time for working with those who are denying us access to public land is long past. In the early 1980s, I wrote a series of articles in the Tucson Citizen about Arizona's growing access problems. The Game and Fish Department responded by cutting and removing locks that had illegally blocked access to state land in the Mustang Mountains near Elgin and Sierra Vista. It also created a new route across a few hundred yards of state land to reopen access to Redfield Canyon after a rancher locked a gate on a small parcel of private land in the Galliuros. As far as I know, those were its last such actions, even though there may have been a hundred or more illegally locked gates blocking access to state lands, even then.

 

During the more than 30 years since, AZGFD has sought access solutions by negotiating. This has resulted -- in three instances that I know of -- in historic roads being closed by the lessees and hunters being forced to drive through ranch yards and sign logbooks before entering state land. There may be some, but I know of no lessee being charged by the State Land Department or AZGFD for denying sportsmen access to state land or any wildlife manager being allowed to remove locks without "consulting" with a lessee of state land since that one time in the Mustangs.

 

Defenders of Wildlife, Center for Biological Diversity and the Sierra Club may not have our respect because of the lawsuits they've filed, but it cannot be disputed that they get results. Just the threat of being sued by them often results in their obtaining what they want. We need to borrow a page from them and stop being nice guys.

 

Bill Quimby

[CouesWhitetail]

PLEASE NOTE: I JUST SPOKE WITH REP. Jerry Weiers ON THE PHONE AND HE WANTED ME TO LET EVERYONE KNOW THAT THE BILL IS ON HOLD NOW......IT IS NOT MOVING FORWARD AT THIS TIME. HE UNDERSTANDS THERE ARE A LOT OF CONCERNS AND IS INTERESTED IN GETTING FEEDBACK ABOUT THIS.

 

All the sportsmen's groups have been invited to meet with the AZSFW next week and we will bring the concerns of our respective membership to that meeting to get answers. So, in addition to contacting Rep. Weiers, I recommend that if you are a member of a sportsmen's group, such as the AZ Deer Association, the AZ Elk Society, AZ Antelope Foundation, etc, that you contact them and voice your opinion so that they may bring it to the meeting.

[muskrat]

I get emails from AZSFW all of the time regarding a variety different topics. I never received anything about this. It's obvious that it has been in the planning stages for awhile. I go to thier website and see no mention either. maybe its there but i cant find it Why the secrecy?

 

Exactly. Regarding the lack of informed opinions, why is that? It's hard to be informed when your input is not solicited, the legislation is drafted without information being passed to all of the conservation groups, and it is popped up on the Commission. If we're uninformed and rumors are running rampant, that is totally on the shoulders of the people who piloted this project. If it's really good for the wildlife and the majority of the hunting public - then allow us time to read it over, ask questions and provide feedback.

 

Sirs – I am an Arizona Sportsman and a freelance outdoor writer. I have supported many conservation groups in Arizona since I moved here 15 years ago. I do not support this bill. I do not want the efforts of various conservation groups further diluted by the interests of a single entity.

 

Further, I am suspicious of the “emergency” nature of this bill as reflected in the verbiage – the fight against hunters’ interests has been present for decades and the call to action certain may warrant “urgent” action, but certainly not at the expense of sneaking legislation through without full scrutiny and thoughtfulness to ensure the good work of all Arizona conservation groups can continue their course empowered, not relegated to cheerleaders for their varied focuses.

 

I will be contacting my legislators and members of the commission as well.

 

Marshall MacFarlane

Queen Creek, AZ

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Bonus, one more I forgot, what is going to be the determining factor to as whether a kid qualifies for a free hunting or fishing liscense?

[JLW]

if it was on the up and up they would not need to ram it through!

this is no emergency! anyone should be po'd they are trying to push this through behind our backs!

typical political BS! SNEEKY SLITHERING SNAKES!

Anyone thinking this over... tell me why the hurry!??

 

James

[AZLance]

Guys, Lets let them hear from us! If you want to send a e-mail to all the house members, you can simply cut and paste the emails below:

 

kyee@azleg.gov; vwilliams@azleg.gov; bwheeler@azleg.gov; jpweiers@azleg.gov; jweiers@azleg.gov; tvogt@azleg.gov; surie@azleg.gov; mugenti@azleg.gov; atovar@azleg.gov; atobin@azleg.gov; dstevens@azleg.gov; dsmith@azleg.gov; cseel@azleg.gov; msaldate@azleg.gov; brobson@azleg.gov; areeve@azleg.gov; tproud@azleg.gov; fpratt@azleg.gov; jpierce@azleg.gov; dpatterson@azleg.gov; lpancrazi@azleg.gov; jolson@azleg.gov; smontenegro@azleg.gov; rmiranda@azleg.gov; cmiranda@azleg.gov; emeyer@azleg.gov; jmesnard@azleg.gov; nmclain@azleg.gov; ddavis@azleg.gov; dlesko@azleg.gov; jkavanagh@azleg.gov; pjudd@azleg.gov; rjones@azleg.gov; khobbs@azleg.gov; mheinz@azleg.gov; jharper@azleg.gov; ahale@azleg.gov; rgray@azleg.gov; dgowan@azleg.gov; dgoodale@azleg.gov; sgonzales@azleg.gov; rgallego@azleg.gov; tforese@azleg.gov; jfillmore@azleg.gov; efarnsworth@azleg.gov; sfarley@azleg.gov; kfann@azleg.gov; jdial@azleg.gov; ccrandell@azleg.gov; scourt@azleg.gov; tchabin@azleg.gov; hcarter@azleg.gov; chcampbell@azleg.gov; jburges@azleg.gov; kbrophymcgee@azleg.gov; bbarton@azleg.gov; cash@azleg.gov; barredondo@azleg.gov; lalston@azleg.gov; eableser@azleg.gov

[JLW]

Guys, Lets let them hear from us! If you want to send a e-mail to all the house members, you can simply cut and paste the emails below:

 

kyee@azleg.gov; vwilliams@azleg.gov; bwheeler@azleg.gov; jpweiers@azleg.gov; jweiers@azleg.gov; tvogt@azleg.gov; surie@azleg.gov; mugenti@azleg.gov; atovar@azleg.gov; atobin@azleg.gov; dstevens@azleg.gov; dsmith@azleg.gov; cseel@azleg.gov; msaldate@azleg.gov; brobson@azleg.gov; areeve@azleg.gov; tproud@azleg.gov; fpratt@azleg.gov; jpierce@azleg.gov; dpatterson@azleg.gov; lpancrazi@azleg.gov; jolson@azleg.gov; smontenegro@azleg.gov; rmiranda@azleg.gov; cmiranda@azleg.gov; emeyer@azleg.gov; jmesnard@azleg.gov; nmclain@azleg.gov; ddavis@azleg.gov; dlesko@azleg.gov; jkavanagh@azleg.gov; pjudd@azleg.gov; rjones@azleg.gov; khobbs@azleg.gov; mheinz@azleg.gov; jharper@azleg.gov; ahale@azleg.gov; rgray@azleg.gov; dgowan@azleg.gov; dgoodale@azleg.gov; sgonzales@azleg.gov; rgallego@azleg.gov; tforese@azleg.gov; jfillmore@azleg.gov; efarnsworth@azleg.gov; sfarley@azleg.gov; kfann@azleg.gov; jdial@azleg.gov; ccrandell@azleg.gov; scourt@azleg.gov; tchabin@azleg.gov; hcarter@azleg.gov; chcampbell@azleg.gov; jburges@azleg.gov; kbrophymcgee@azleg.gov; bbarton@azleg.gov; cash@azleg.gov; barredondo@azleg.gov; lalston@azleg.gov; eableser@azleg.gov

Done!

 

James

[CouesWhitetail]

HELLO!!

 

Did anyone see my post saying that the bill is NOT moving forward right now! Rep. Weiers has put it on hold because he is aware of the concerns sportsmen have.

 

So you do have time to review, gather info and make comments.

 

Here is my post again:

 

PLEASE NOTE: I JUST SPOKE WITH REP. Jerry Weiers ON THE PHONE AND HE WANTED ME TO LET EVERYONE KNOW THAT THE BILL IS ON HOLD NOW......IT IS NOT MOVING FORWARD AT THIS TIME. HE UNDERSTANDS THERE ARE A LOT OF CONCERNS AND IS INTERESTED IN GETTING FEEDBACK ABOUT THIS.

All the sportsmen's groups have been invited to meet with the AZSFW next week and we will bring the concerns of our respective membership to that meeting to get answers. So, in addition to contacting Rep. Weiers, I recommend that if you are a member of a sportsmen's group, such as the AZ Deer Association, the AZ Elk Society, AZ Antelope Foundation, etc, that you contact them and voice your opinion so that they may bring it to the meeting.

[AZLance]

I saw the message, but the house members still need to hear that hunters are pissed off, in case SFW trys to sneak this again. We need to KILL this bill permenantly, no negotiating! I hope the other conservation groups tell AZSFW to stick it where the sun dont shine.

[elkaholic]

I think the message most arizona sportsmen/women want to hear is the bill is killed -- not on hold!

[Jeff Welker]

Jeff Welker you are onto something. If every hunter could organize, at least in az, we would be very powerful. Might be hard due to the variance in opinions but variance in opinions is also what can make people/groups so strong.

 

nosajpo - You are absolutely correct; becoming an organized group with a united agenda would be daunting. You are also correct that the strong opinions (however varied) held by Arizona's outdoorsmen can ultimately be its strength. While I'm often disappointed when I see individuals post knee-jerk comments that do not help our cause, I am also equally encouraged that folks are so passionate about Arizona's outdoors. The ultimate challenge is organizing and focusing that wonderful passion unto a machine that carries the same force with AZGFD and the Legislature as the well funded organizations representing ranchers, landowners, and other special interests. Unfortunately, all the well intended groups such as ADBSS, AAF, ADA, AES, etc have separate agendas that do not address global issues of wildlife/land management in Arizona. We join these groups and good things get accomplished on a micro-level; however, the macro issues which impact us all go unaddressed. Frankly; until Arizona's hunters, fishers and outdoorsman can unite and fund an entity that will day-in-and-day-out keep tabs on AZGFD and the Legislature (I'm talking lobbyists and lawyers) we will continue to be frustrated. Messrs. Quimby is 100% correct when he says we need to take legal action to get the attention of the policy makers. While we may have a small victory from time to time (i.e. HB 2072 being placed on hold), they don't address the big picture and long-term change.

 

I've read many references in this post about bad things that happened in Utah. I was directly involved with one of those fights and it became painfully obvious that we were ultimately going to take it in the shorts and lose. We had all the passion on our side; however, the opposition was better organized and funded. Instead of debating whether we should pay more for tags or other game enhancement fees; how about we discuss donating the same money to the creation of an organization that will help shape policy, rather than complain about it? Getting HB 2072 delayed is a reactive victory. We need to be proactive in shaping legislation instead of being surprised by it.

 

Just one man's opinion.