tcharchery Report post Posted January 9, 2012 I don't want to pay more, and I don't want to wait longer either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThomC Report post Posted January 9, 2012 Be careful what you ask for, you might get it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sam Report post Posted January 10, 2012 I don't want to pay more, and with the time God has given men on this planet running out, I definitely don't want to wait. Don't know where you're hunting, but I have never had to "dodge a bullet" in any area in Arizona -- even when we had a heck of a lot more hunters out there. I live in unit one six months a year and I can guarantee you that we have no shortage of elk. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: the most avid hunters and fishermen are our own worst enemies. We demand restrictions on ourselves that are neither necessary nor needed. If you want to hunt elk without seeing other hunters, save your money and buy a landowner permit in New Mexico or Colorado. Don't mess it up for those of us who don't mind competition and want to be allowed to hunt close to home a few more times before we're planted six feet down. Bill Quimby Hmmm.....I doubt that my comment will "mess it up" for anyone. I have no problem with competition and taking my chance on being drawn. Like every public service industry in AZ, the Game and Fish Department can use more funding. I did not mean to literally "dodge a bullet". I figured most people on this site would not take it literally. I just think there are too many permits in certain areas, thus too many people. I agree that the elk heard has increased in Arizona, but I do not believe the increase in the heard justifies the number of permits that are allocated for certain hunts. Show me how many more elk are in unit 5A that justified the permits going from 75 bull permits in 2002 to 339 last year - this is a joke and there is no reason for such a large increase in tags. Well, I guess there is according to the AZGFD - the reason is to manage this unit as a trophy unit in the future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
308Nut Report post Posted January 10, 2012 I hate to be the one to disagree with Bill but to me, this is not about competition or seeing other hunters. This is about the overall quality of game and numbers of game decreasing due to the abundance of elk tags given. Look at unit 22N. The genes have been there in the past as well as mature bulls. The genes are still there but the best genes are few and far between and mature bulls are even fewer. More tags = less quality period. It is little wonder why some other states are starting to dominate the record books in regards to quality bulls. Some other states are managing their herds for quality. Can you imagine what units 8, 9, 10, 1, 27, 3A/3C etc...would be like if the same mentality for 'hunter opportunity' was adopted there such as in the case of 22N? I say to he!! with hunter opportunity and yes to more quality game. Even if permits cost more and we have to wait longer. If you want hunter opportunity and elk meat every year, hunt elk in CO. If you dont want to hunt CO due to the piss poor quality of the bulls, then wait till AZ continues to adopt the same mentality. Then you will be waiting even longer for those out of state tags where the bulls are being managed. I realize there is more to elk and herds than just big bulls but why destroy a great thing for more coins and hunters in the woods? Unless you want to hunt spikes and 3x4's every year it doesnt make sense. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billrquimby Report post Posted January 10, 2012 Sorry, folks, but for me a quality hunt means an Arizona elk tag in my pocket and a rifle on my shoulder. Sitting at home and only dreaming about hunting is in no way a quality hunt. As for "quality game," believe it or not, a state wildlife agency's mission is not to provide trophy animals for a minority of hunters, and no matter how much that minority tries to make it one, "opportunity" is not a four-letter word. I don't know about the other units, but since retiring in 1999 I have spent close to 180 days each year in unit one, with maybe 50 days or so each year looking at elk. We have no shortage of mature bulls, nor have I seen any decrease in the number of really big bulls on my regular excursions around the mountain. If anything, I see more, not fewer, than I saw ten years ago. Granted, elk on the Greer side of the mountain regularly move in and out of the White Mountain Apache Tribe's reservation, but that only reinforces my belief that unit one's elk herd is not overhunted and that it probably could stand a few more tags. As for going to Colorado, why should I have to drive that far when I have elk in my yard every night and a couple thousand more on the mountain behind me, just because I like to hunt and eat elk? Bill Quimby Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
308Nut Report post Posted January 16, 2012 Sorry, folks, but for me a quality hunt means an Arizona elk tag in my pocket and a rifle on my shoulder. Sitting at home and only dreaming about hunting is in no way a quality hunt. Bill Quimby Sounds like unit 22N is the unit for you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted January 16, 2012 Bill is even smarter than me. i agree with him. give me an elk tag and get outta the way. i'll find something to put it on. or better yet, give me a sheep tag. and if pbj and his buddies woulda got his way there woulda been less elk tags and the ones they took woulda been too expensive for anyone i know. i also think that we should have a geezer hunt. sorta like the youth hunt but you hafta be so old and live here so long, preferably a native, to get a tag. Lark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues79 Report post Posted January 16, 2012 Bill is even smarter than me. i agree with him. give me an elk tag and get outta the way. i'll find something to put it on. or better yet, give me a sheep tag. and if pbj and his buddies woulda got his way there woulda been less elk tags and the ones they took woulda been too expensive for anyone i know. i also think that we should have a geezer hunt. sorta like the youth hunt but you hafta be so old and live here so long, preferably a native, to get a tag. Lark. I agree with a Sr hunt. Give a few tags to those that have supported this state and game programs for years and years. Have to say I respect and agree with most of what Bill has to say as well; seen a lot, been around to see a lot of things change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted January 16, 2012 Very good points by .308 Nut as well. I don't know much about units 5 or 22, or how they are managed - acually nothing. The areas closer to me are 1, 3A/C and 27. In all of these units there are a lot of true trophy quality bulls and huge herds of cows. I sometimes cringe about the number of cow tags allotted, but it hasn't seemed to negatively impact the overall numbers. At this point it seems that a good balance has been achieved in those units. If you want a trophy bull tag, you have to put in for a long time but when you get a tag your chances of getting a great bull are very good. If you just want to go hunt, you should be able to draw a cow tag fairly regularly, especially archery cow. The point was brought up about other states. I haven't hunted CO, but I have friends in Montanna. They can get elk tags every year, but the trophy quality is far inferior to AZ, NM and UT. Montanna is every bit capable of producing huge bulls, as Chuck Adams has proved, but these guys are chomping at the bit to come down here and hunt. Seems AZG&F is doing a pretty darn good job of balancing qaulity vs quantity in the units I'm familiar with when it comes to elk. Deer, not as much, but I have seen some improvements there as well, along with some disappointments. 1000+ tags for deer in 24A seems excessive, and cutting the rut hunts from 450 to 50 or maybe even less now... I don't see the logic in that. Kind of ruined one of my favorite deer units for me. I would love to see AZG&F put more emphasis on pronghorn. We are surrounded by states with huge antelope populations, but we just can't seem get them established here, the way it seems to me they could be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snapshot Report post Posted January 16, 2012 Even though I am back in Arizona, I am still a legal Montana resident. I can get a Montana combo license for Elk,Deer,Bear,Lion,small game, for less money than a Arizona resident elk tag costs. I won't be applying for this years Arizona elk draw,as it would be a waste of time and money as I would not get drawn anyway as a non-resident. Montana has good hunting for elk, but not the quality we see in AZ. A few really big bulls are taken in Montana every year. I almost hit a nice 320 class elk,at night, with my truck a few days before I came back to AZ, thank God he turned and headed back into the ditch. As for Arizona, I think the elk system we have is adequate, so I would not want to pay more.My unit of choice is not a problem as far as overcrowding is concerned, just getting drawn is the problem, But since a third of the unit went up in flames........? I would like to see a reduction of deer tags, and I would not mind paying a little more for deer if we could improve our deer herds.Just a thought! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billrquimby Report post Posted January 16, 2012 Bill is even smarter than me. i agree with him. give me an elk tag and get outta the way. i'll find something to put it on. or better yet, give me a sheep tag. and if pbj and his buddies woulda got his way there woulda been less elk tags and the ones they took woulda been too expensive for anyone i know. i also think that we should have a geezer hunt. sorta like the youth hunt but you hafta be so old and live here so long, preferably a native, to get a tag. Lark. I'd agree with you on giving us geezers a special hunt, Lark, but someone would accuse me of having a vested interest because I qualify on every count you've proposed: I was born in Tucson, and I have lived In Arizona all of my 75 years except for about a few months in 1946. Bill Quimby Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtower Report post Posted January 16, 2012 Yes i would pay more and wait longer. Although i think game and fish should change it to if you get drawn for bull elk you have to wait three years to put in again. I would like to see a wait period also,5 years or like NV , 10 years for Bull Elk if you bag one, 5 years still if you don't bag a Bull. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues79 Report post Posted January 16, 2012 A waiting period won't help to take that many folks out of the draw. When there's 6000 folks applying for units that have only a few dozen tags, there won't be that many people taken out of the picture even over a 10 year period. But geez, 10 years? Man I'd like to at least have a chance to hunt a bull a little more frequently than that, especially in my own state..... not a guarantee hunt but at least the possibility. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThomC Report post Posted January 16, 2012 Anyone with a pioneer license should get a cow tag every year. Those that want a waiting period all you have to do is put in for a bonus point and wait for five years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
