Lobo/Hybrids

[.270]

when they started this mexican "wolf" program, they were considered extinct, and had been for years. there were a couple around that they thought could be pure wolf and some others they knew were part dog. some were pets on ranches and some were in zoos and other places, on both sides of the border. there were only a handfull of them. they rounded up what they could and started breeding whatever this thing is they have now. in the original stuff they put out, if you knew where to look, it said they were all part dog. that's why they get parvo and other diseases that wild wolves are resistent to. my daughter did a research paper on the mexican gray wolf when she was in college. an azgfd biologist provided her with info for the paper that said they were all part dog. i've cornered a couple different wolfers and they eventually admitted they were part dog because i had the info to prove em liars if they didn't. but they countered with they were enough wolf that the dog part didn't matter. i wouldn't doubt if they have bred gray wolves or timber wolves into em. don't know it, but it would not surprise me. there are so many lies in this whole deal that i don't think you can believe anything that is printed in favor of it. they have to be inbred as heck too. inbreeding any animal will really mess em up too. hip displasia is real common. some of em might end up crosseyed and with a big overbite too, they call em dorkwolves. we can argue till the cows come home about it, but if they were pure wolf the wouldn't have to innoculate em all for dog diseases. from what i have gathered, they have to round up all the pups as soon as they are born and give em shots. this wolf deal is a stupid joke. if they were real wolves they would have taken over like the real wolves they turned loose in yellowstone have, by now too. Lark.

[gearsnagger]

First off, I find the pictures of the canines in flagrante delicto to be gratuitous at best, uncalled for and offensive at worst.

 

I just thought they was wrestling a bit!

[gearsnagger]

The problem with wolfxdog hybrid's is the loss of fear/shyness of man - this is a well known documented fact! This is not a natural trait...... This is not a problem with sharks , bears and other wild beasts that xbreed.... The key word being wild , as in not domesticated!

I am all for having wild populations of bears , lion's , wolves , sharks - I am against introducing wolfxdog hybrids and using it as a ploy to highjack the game management programs of other wild species... Like I stated and supported with scientific fact the animals in the Mexican Greys in the AZ and NM program could not have been DNA tested because the test did not exist until 2008.... They need to be tested now that the technology is available!

Go eat your sardine's or herring's somewhere else and take your Jimmy Jone's lemonade with ya too!

[MattMan]

The AZGFD's spin doctors were telling us they wouldn't and couldn't cross breed with domestic dogs not too long ago...

[Rag Horn]

Could someone define "part dog". I don't like the "wolf" program but this whole part dog thing makes me scratch my head because "dog" is a generic name for the k9 species. By that definition a wolf is all dog. 100% dog. Could someone define a little better this "part dog" doctrine.

 

All "dogs" k9 breeds from foxes, Great Danes, Black Labs, coon hounds and every other member of the dog family have no more than 3% genetic variance between breeds. Less than 3% genetic variance between any 2 types of dogs.

 

Were these wolves bread with labs? Queensland heelers? Poodles or maybe a laberdoodle?

[.270]

it was most likely some type of cowdog. at least a couple of the original "wolves" that were used to breed this thing they have now, were pets on ranches and were part domestic dog. it has been a long time, but it really seems that they only had 2 animals that were known to be pure wolf and at least one of them was extremely old.

 

there were several articles in the newspapers a few years ago where the wolfers actually blamed the dog dna that was showing up on folks releasing hybrid wolf/dog crosses in the wild and they had bred with the "wolves". and they talked like there were a bunch of em released too. i've never even known anyonw who had a hybrid. but all the sudden a bunch of em got released and got hung up with these things? good story i guess. i don't believe it.

 

if you really want to figure out what is going on this wold deal for yourself, go back to the beginning. do some research and find it. this started probably close to 30 years ago. the original seed was planted by folks with an agenda, they got the endangered species folks and and the usfw and a few other feds to get on board with them and then it took off. the "wolves" were bred in captivity up north. seems like wisconsin or minnesota. maybe even michigan. and under some real suspicious terms. one thing that stuck out to me was that wherever it was, at the time, there were a lot of outfits in the same general area that were advertising hybrid wolves for sale as pets. go figger. when i got into it enough to prove to myself it was just a big lie there weren't any computers and stuff to search with. it oughta be real easy now. so get after it and make an informed decision. don't believe anything anyone tells you and convince yourself one way or the other. quit all the finger pointing and figure it out. like the x files, the truth is out there. now go find it. Lark.

[4Falls]

I cant find it now... but I read an article in the Flagstaff paper the other day that was crediting wolves with helping to re-forest the burned areas of Yellowstone Park.

 

Just more fuel for the Wolf crowd to bring more wolves to Arizona to help reforest our burned areas as well.

 

(I love stirring things up)

[gearsnagger]

it was most likely some type of cowdog. at least a couple of the original "wolves" that were used to breed this thing they have now, were pets on ranches and were part domestic dog. it has been a long time, but it really seems that they only had 2 animals that were known to be pure wolf and at least one of them was extremely old.

 

there were several articles in the newspapers a few years ago where the wolfers actually blamed the dog dna that was showing up on folks releasing hybrid wolf/dog crosses in the wild and they had bred with the "wolves". and they talked like there were a bunch of em released too. i've never even known anyonw who had a hybrid. but all the sudden a bunch of em got released and got hung up with these things? good story i guess. i don't believe it.

 

if you really want to figure out what is going on this wold deal for yourself, go back to the beginning. do some research and find it. this started probably close to 30 years ago. the original seed was planted by folks with an agenda, they got the endangered species folks and and the usfw and a few other feds to get on board with them and then it took off. the "wolves" were bred in captivity up north. seems like wisconsin or minnesota. maybe even michigan. and under some real suspicious terms. one thing that stuck out to me was that wherever it was, at the time, there were a lot of outfits in the same general area that were advertising hybrid wolves for sale as pets. go figger. when i got into it enough to prove to myself it was just a big lie there weren't any computers and stuff to search with. it oughta be real easy now. so get after it and make an informed decision. don't believe anything anyone tells you and convince yourself one way or the other. quit all the finger pointing and figure it out. like the x files, the truth is out there. now go find it. Lark.

Even though Lark has to get computer help from his 12 year old neighbor kid he is intelligent enough to recognize when he is being lied to!

 

Here is another 2011 news piece from Alaska about hybrids - The DNA testing for wolfxdogs is now simple enough that the local Sheriff dept could get it done...

Troopers test for wolf DNA at Valley tourist business Hybrids linked operation may be involved in attacks on people By CASEY GROVE casey.grove@adn.com By CASEY GROVEcasey.grove@adn.com Published: June 17th, 2011 12:13 PM Last Modified: June 17th, 2011 03:06 PM PALMER -- Alaska Wildlife Troopers served a search warrant Thursday on Wolf Country USA, testing the DNA of dozens of suspected wolves or wolf hybrids. Story tools 125 Comments mi.commenting.displayCommentCount(); E-mail a friend Print var tmpURL = window.location.href; function im_story() { var action; msg = 'aim:goim?'; msg += 'message='; msg += tmpURL; document.Form.action = msg; document.Form.submit(); } function newsvine_story() { window.open('http://www.newsvine.com/_wine/save?popoff=1&u="' + tmpURL + '"','newsvine','toolbar=no,width=590,height=600,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes') } Share on Facebook Digg this Seed Newsvine Send link via AIMTweet this Font size : A | A | A tool name close tool goes here Troopers say the roadside attraction, north of Palmer, recently billed itself online as home of "the largest wolfpack" in the state, even though it's illegal to possess wolves in Alaska without a state permit. The business holds no such permit, officials say. Dog-wolf hybrids are illegal as pets under any circumstances. Troopers say they also are investigating reports of attacks on kids and pets by wolf hybrids thought to have been born at Wolf Country USA. Werner Schuster, 80, who owns the gift shop and animal enclosure with his wife, said he hasn't broken any laws. For more than seven hours, the investigators seized documents, pictures and two or three computers, Schuster said. They also tranquilized his animals, swabbed the insides of their mouths to collect DNA and implanted the animals with microchips, he said. "I can't see any rhyme or reason. It's just idiotic," Schuster said. "They're going to put me out of business." DOG OR WOLF? In particular, authorities were looking for evidence of the possession and sale of wolves and wolf hybrids as well as evidence of game meat being used as animal food, the search warrant said. "The main reason we're here is it's a public safety issue," said trooper Lt. Bernard Chastain. "One case we had recently is we had an 8-year-old boy bit in the face, and that was a wolf hybrid." One woman told troopers she paid the Schusters $500 for what she believed to be a purebred timber wolf, according to a trooper affidavit. Genetic testing showed the animal, which bit a person earlier this year in Chugiak, was part wolf, troopers said. Fish and Game officials say wolf hybrids can be unpredictable and possibly more dangerous than their purebred cousins. "In addition to having the prey drive and willingness to bite someone, they (might) lose their wariness of humans because of the dog genetics," said Fish and Game spokeswoman Cathie Harms. ADVERTISEMENT Advertisement Schuster said he hadn't heard the stories of hybrids attacking humans. "Just cause a wolf does something, they're going to blame all the other wolves?" he asked. Nobody's been bitten at Wolf Country USA, Schuster said. Out back, some of the animals were still drowsy from the testing. One, named Sir Lancelot, slept under a tree. Another, Sheeba, walked back and forth, chained to large metal pipe protruding from the ground. "We've seen kids come up and feed 'em, kiss 'em," Schuster said. "I'm not saying they're all meek and gentle. Some of 'em I don't even go to, but that's their culture." NEW DNA TEST In an effort to eliminate wolf hybrids from Alaska, the Board of Game in 2002 expanded rules to make it illegal to own, breed, market or sell wolf hybrids. Existing hybrids could remain alive if their owners got them neutered or spayed, implanted with a microchip, licensed and vaccinated. But all valid hybrid permits have since lapsed, Harms said. If unregistered animals born after 2002 prove to be wolves or closely related, Wolf Country owners Werner and Gail Schuster could be breaking the law, said Chastain, the trooper lieutenant. "That's the problem in this situation, because it's this year's puppies, this year's litter," Chastain said. The state prohibition on wolf hybrids has historically been difficult to prosecute because authorities had no conclusive DNA test, troopers said. A new saliva test recently became available, allowing for Thursday's testing, Chastain said. There were about 40 animals being tested, Schuster said as he sat on a wooden picnic table in front of his store. That included about 30 adults and 10 pups, he said. Schuster said he's "done the wolf thing" -- showing his animals to visitors -- about 25 years. All the animals are registered with the American Kennel Club as huskies, he said. "There's no such thing as 100 percent wolf. It's what you call 'em that makes it illegal," he said. When pressed, Schuster called the animals wolves, which is what he tells visitors, who, for $10, can "adopt" the animals for a week. "Yeah, they're wolves. They're wolves," he said. And the tests would likely come back saying as much, Schuster admitted. "They'll just come and put 'em all down," he said. "Of course we're worried. Those are our babies." THE INVESTIGATION This isn't the first time authorities have visited Wolf Country USA. In 1991, troopers seized 540 marijuana plants found at Schuster's home, according to reports at the time. He was convicted of growing pot and stealing electricity from Matanuska Electric Association. More recently, troopers say that three separate investigations into illegal possession of wolf hybrids in Anchorage and Mat-Su pointed authorities to Wolf Country USA as a source for the animals. As early as December of 2010, troopers interviewed Ronald West, an Anchorage man accused of owning an illegal hybrid, the troopers affidavit said. The animal had escaped its restraints and killed a neighbor's dog, troopers said. West told an investigator that he couldn't understand why he was being prosecuted for his animal when Wolf Country USA was home to dozens more -- some being used for breeding. Troopers looked up the business's website, finding a link advertising what appeared to be wolf puppies for sale, the affidavit says. Another tip came the next month, when Anchorage-area Fish and Game biologist Jessy Coltrane told troopers of another wolf hybrid. The animal had bitten a person Jan. 8 in Chugiak, she said. When investigators talked to one of the owners, the man said he'd bought the animal from Wolf Country USA, troopers said. Troopers sent a blood sample of the animal to the Veterinary Genetics Laboratory at the University of California, Davis. It was part wolf, the tests concluded. BAD FOR BUSINESS YouTube videos posted in October 2009 by a visitor to Wolf Country USA show Schuster saying three of the animals appeared in the 2007 film "Into the Wild," the trooper affidavit said. In the clips, Schuster can be heard talking about selling animals to customers in Holland, Japan and Denver. The Denver buyers spent $30,000 building a 10-foot-high fence for their wolf, Schuster said, according to troopers. Along with wolf-viewing, Wolf Country sells gifts like wooden clocks and totem poles, Schuster said Thursday as troopers searched his property. The effort forced him to temporarily close, putting a damper on business, he said. A man and a woman in a motor home pulled into the parking lot as Schuster talked. They walked toward the door next to a neon "Open" sign that was now unlit. The woman held a camera and wore a visor. "We're closed," Schuster said, offering no other explanation as the couple left, glancing at the trooper vehicles parked in front. A tour of Wolf Country USA uploaded to YouTube Daily News reporter Kyle Hopkins contributed to this report. Copyright 2012 . All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. placeAd(); if(getCookies("fontSize")){ var mySize = getCookies("fontSize"); changeStyles(mySize); //alert(mySize); } var comment_display = getCookies("adn_comments_pref"); var comment_exp = new Date();comment_exp.setDate(comment_exp.getDate() + 730); function hide(){setCookie("adn_comments_pref","1",comment_exp, "/", ".adn.com", "");$("#commentingStage").html("");$(".hide_comments").addClass("hide_comment");$(".show_comments").removeClass("hide_comment");$(".comWrapper").addClass("hide_comment");} function show(){setCookie("adn_comments_pref","",comment_exp, "/", ".adn.com", ""); $(".show_comments").addClass("hide_comment");$(".hide_comments").removeClass("hide_comment");$(".comWrapper").removeClass("hide_comment");mi.commenting.display();}

 

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2011/06/16/1920515/troopers-test-for-hybrids-at-valley.html#storylink=cpy

[gearsnagger]

Could someone define "part dog". I don't like the "wolf" program but this whole part dog thing makes me scratch my head because "dog" is a generic name for the k9 species. By that definition a wolf is all dog. 100% dog. Could someone define a little better this "part dog" doctrine.

 

All "dogs" k9 breeds from foxes, Great Danes, Black Labs, coon hounds and every other member of the dog family have no more than 3% genetic variance between breeds. Less than 3% genetic variance between any 2 types of dogs.

 

Were these wolves bread with labs? Queensland heelers? Poodles or maybe a laberdoodle?

Chimpanzee and Human DNA are 99% the same - Whats your point! Monkey's can scratch their heads also?????? :lol:

So by your thinking it would be OK to release Chimpxhumans into the jungle or have them as pet's , maybe even work for you oh that's it train one to scratch your head! :lol: Would it make you feel closer to nature?

[Arizona Griz]

Lots of conjecture here. I would like to think that the wolves are pure or least when they were re-introduced the original animals were. Wolf/dog crosses have been around forever. Heck, I used to have one.

 

We sure are not experts here but I guess if someone wants to dig deep enough some facts could be brought out. Probably best to go to the source.

[gearsnagger]

Lots of conjecture here. I would like to think that the wolves are pure or least when they were re-introduced the original animals were. Wolf/dog crosses have been around forever. Heck, I used to have one.

 

We sure are not experts here but I guess if someone wants to dig deep enough some facts could be brought out. Probably best to go to the source.

Yes these hybrids have been around for a long time - Many states and counties have laws prohibiting owning or breeding these dogxwolves and in Arizona it is illegal to release these hybrids into the wild a law I happen to agree with! As far as being an expert I probably know more about predators than most of the agenda driven retards in the Mexican Grey program! What happened to your wolfxdog?

[.270]

i am part owner, as a taxpayer, of a buncha wolf/dog crosses. Lark.

[Pine Donkey]

If you divide the cost of the reintroduction program by the estimated number of wolves ( x dogs) you will find each of those wolves is worth almost $200,000. That's an expensive dog in anybody's book!

[Arizona Griz]

What happened to your wolfxdog?

 

It lived a full and long life as did many of the animals my friends had. I do not know of anyone whom released them back into the wild. It wouldn't make much sense to do that.

[gearsnagger]

What happened to your wolfxdog?

 

It lived a full and long life as did many of the animals my friends had. I do not know of anyone whom released them back into the wild. It wouldn't make much sense to do that.

Oh it was your friends wolfdog or you gave it to your friends ........? Halfbreeds always have a hard life wether it be man or beast , take for example Lark I heard he was a Morman - More man than woman... :lol: :lol:Just kidin Lark just kidin...

Seriously Griz tell us more about your dogwolf!

Check out this video about wolves!