Long Range Bullet Selection

[scoutm]

There have been a couple recent posts regarding bullet/caliber choices that I found interesting but didn't see a particular aspect discussed that I was interested in. Not wanting to hijack those threads I started this one.

 

With all the interest in longrange shooting there's tons of discussion on what makes a good long range rifle(mainly accurate) and what makes a good long range cartridge(Fast/Flat). However,I haven't seen discussion on what makes a good long range bullet. There are many outstanding bullets that have been discussed such as the entire Nosler line, Barnes TSX/TTSX, Berger and Seirra bullets. When looking at the specifications for these bullets most have a published Minimum velocity for proper expansion and optimal performance. In many of the long range success stories, what I'm seeing is that in many reports animials are being taken at ranges where the resulting velocity is well below the published minumum velocity for proper expansion.

 

For example, the 6.5x284 norma is gaining in popularity in the long range hunting world so much so a noted custom gun maker is manufacturing a special limited edition run of rifles. Now the 6.5/.264 is widely recognized as an outstanding long range caliber for the excellent BC bullets offered in this caliber. However, does it lose it's long range effectiveness when matched the wrong bullet? For example, lets say you take the 6.5/.264 Nosler AB 140gr bullet that has a .509 BC and a sectional density better than a 180gr .308 and pair it with the 6.5x284, do you still have an effective long range setup? The muzzle velocity for this combination is in the range of 2900ft/s so after 600yards (which is definitely long range shooting) the velocity has dropped below the minimum velocity the bullets needs for proper expansion.

 

 

So, are these published minumums really something to be concerned with? How important is it to match gun/caliber/cartridge and bullet minimum velocity to the intended distance one expect to shoot? Are there bullets that have a wider range of velocities they are effective at?

 

How do/did you go about selecting your long range bullet?

 

 

[roninflag]

there is an article in precision shooting a month back about the 7mm mag . it mentions the use of a 120 bullet . on paper not as good as some others with a higher bc. my buddy has killed 30 coues with it. 7 stw sendero. most important is a rifle capable of the accuracy needed at distance . most factory rifles are unable to do it. next comes the bullet selection. shooting some bullets over time will prove .

[TAM]

I have several random thoughts on this topic. First, to me the most important factor is accuracy. You can't kill what you can't hit. Second, hunters have been killing stuff with bullets for a long time and even in the old days with non-premium bullets critters still got killed just as dead as they do today with premium bullets. If you put ANY bullet through an animals chest it's pretty much gonna die (go back to my first point - accuracy).

 

There seems to be a standing arguement over the best way for a bullet to kill. There are the Barnes and Nosler Partition guys that want perfect controlled expansion which often times lends itself to the bullet completly passing through the animal. Some like the idea that this creates an exit and a better blood trail while others argue that it's wasted energy. Also as already mentioned these type of controlled expansion bullets often have a "window" of optimum performance and if you hit the animal to fast or to slow you may not get the desired performance from the bullet.

 

Then there are the guys like me that want a rapid expansion bullet like a Berger, Ballistic tip, or in my case a JLK. Our theory is that we want the bullet to enter the animal and then explode like a gernade throwing fragments of copper, lead, and bone through the animals vitals. As this happens less energy is lost and often the animal absorbs 100% of the bullets kenetic energy. We may not have an exit wound for optimal blood trailing, but then again there may not be a trailing job at all as often times the animal goes straight down. In my experience shooting a 300 RUM and a 6.5x284 with JLK bullets we have killed animals from ranges of 80 yards out to over 800 yards and the result is always the same. The bullet goes in and explodes! Sometimes we have gotten exit holes but I think it mostly depends on if you hit any bone on the way in. In most cases the animal goes right down or dies a few feet away.

 

To answer your question, Yes I feel like I have a much larger "window" of optimal performance with a rapid expanding bullet than I get when shooting a heavier constructed bullet. But any way you look at it Accuracy is number one and the rest is just going to be like discussing Ford, Chevy, or Dodge!

 

Good luck!

[Red Rabbit]

Larry, here is one informative chart showing expanded bullets at various velocities.

http://stevespages.com/jpg/bestbullet.jpg

 

This may be a good comparison of bullets, (but not at min velocity though)

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1481504/Huge_264_Bullet_Test_with_lots

 

Here's JB's article on the Berger VLD performance

http://www.bergerbullets.com/Information/Barsness%20Article.pdf

[Coach]

I think TAM is right on. I prefer a .300 WSM but when shooting at coues-sized game I steer away from some of the premium "bonded" bullets and prefer the CT silver tip because of it's rapid expansion. The last buck I shot with a rifle was a .300 WSM with CT the silver tip. The shot was hard quartering away and went in behind the ribs on one side and out the opposite shoulder. The deer went only 20 yards, but there was little blood and no excessive meat damage.

 

Many years back, my buddy shot a small bodied coues with a Nosler Partition in .270. There was a tiny entry wound, a tiny exit wound and no blood. Luckily he fell where we could easily find him. This bullet entered around the flank and exited the opposite shoulder through the vitals. This deer went only 20 yards from the hit, but there was only one tiny drop of blood below his nostril where he died. If we had to track that buck into the thick stuff he was heading to, we would have had a very hard time finding him.

 

If I'm hunting elk, I'll be shooting a bonded bullet like the Nosler AccuBond or Barnes - both are great for elk. My boys killed two cow two seasons ago, one was a 300 WSM with Barnes TSX, the other was .270 WSM with Nosler Accubond, and both dropped in their tracks.

 

But, if they were hunting coues deer, I don't think I would have used the same bullets. Probably the CT silvertips because of the rapid expansion. It's always a fine line between expansion and penetration, expecially when higher velocity rounds are concerned. The ultimate goal of a bullet, from what I can discern, is to translate as much energy into the core of the animal as possible.

 

The 2 most common failures are:

 

1 - The bullet explodes on impact tearing away a chunk of hide and flesh but fails to penetrate the vitals.

2 - The bullet fails to expand and pokes a small hole all the way through, but doesn't kill quickly and doesn't cause enough trauma to produce either immediate shock or massive blood loss but causes extensive internal blleding leading to death.

 

Of these two cases, 1 will sometimes result in a lost animal, and a 50/50 chance of eventually surviving. 2 will almost certainly result in an untrackable animal that will eventually die.

 

If I had to sum-up bullet selection, on elk and larger sized game I would ALWAYS use a strong bullet - either a good bonded or solid copper. On Coues or pigs, I would select a very "expansive" bullet, like the Silver tip.

 

Upon re-reading this, I hope I don't come across as a "know it all" because I certainly don't. If there is a take-away, just pick the bullet that best fits the game you are after. Bigger, thicker-skinned, heavier boned animals need a bullet that can handle their body. Smaller, lighter-game needs a bullet with faster expansion.

[firstcoueswas80]

Ive always based this sorta thing (scopes included) on what happens if a shooter buck stands up at close distance? Just because youre prepared for a 800 yard shot, doesnt mean thats whats going to be presented.

 

I like a bullet that will hold together up close, yet open and penetrate enough at long distance.

 

My choice for that has been the Accubond, or TTSX.

[308Nut]

The short of it is that yes, bullets have an optimum velocity zone for hunting purposes. You dont want them to explode when you hit a shoulder and you dont want them to pencil through soft tissue. A: You need sufficient material to reach the vitals. B: You need expansion for cleaner kills.

 

Yes, a bullet that pencils through game even in the heart/lung area will kill it. Unfortunately, it often takes MUCH longer with little to no blood trail. As quick as coues deer dissapear this is a problem. Dont confuse complete pass throughs with an expanded bullet as energy wasted compared to a FMJ pass through. A pass through with an FMJ or 'hunting' bullet that did not expand is energy wasted. The reason well constructed bullets are notorious for passing through is because of the controlled expansion itself. If only the nose expands what is left? Most of the bearing surface and the base are left. Most of the bullets weight (which allows momentum to continue) is pushing the 'mushroom' through. A bullet that completely flattens out is much less likely to pass through becuase the weight behind the mushroom is just not there. Any bullet that expands transfers energy to the game regardless of whether or not it passes through. Idealy, you would like as much energy transfer as possible along with an exit for more blood/air purging and better blood trail if needed, however, there is not neccesarily anything wrong with a bullet that did not exit so long as it did sufficient damage and shock wile it was moving.

 

Why expansion? 1: It expends energy (transfers) to the animal creating shock. 2: It creates a bigger hole. The value of that is it tears more tissue, more blood vessles etc...It allows them to bleed out quicker and keep the wound from closing so air cannot remain in the lungs. The less air the better. An FMJ through the lungs allows the hole to seal up and very little air purges.

 

All that said, there is not any one bullet that will work for all calibers at all ranges. The 308 win can get away with using a more frangible bullet like a ballistic tip or AMAX at shorter ranges where a 300 RUM needs a more stout bullet. A 178 AMAX at 3300 FPS may not reach the vitals if it impacts a shoulder bone on an elk at 50 yards. This is where you would want a Barnes or Nosler ACCUBOND etc....On the flip side, you wouldnt want to shoot the 180 ACCUBOND at an elk at 308 velocities at 800 yards either. Why? Because it wont expand. Where you could get away with a 200 grain Sierra Game King with a 1500 FPS minimum (the key here is higher BC for more velocity retention and a lower velocity requiment), you could not get away with the ACCUBOND with its 1800 FPS minimum and lower BC (BC for retained velocity or lack of).

 

This is also where BC comes into play. The higher the BC, the more retained velocity at any range. The higher the retained velocity, the further you can push the limits (so long as you are using the right bullet). With a slower caliber such as the 308, high BC bullets that expand at low velocities are critical if one is going to use it as a long range hunting rifle. With a 300 RUM, high BC's are nice but not as critical as with the 308 AND you need a bullet that will hold up on close quarter shots.

 

Most LR hunters select a bullet that will expand at their desired range for their caliber AND target. For instance, I know sheep hunters that use the 208 AMAX in their 300 RUMs. Even though that bullet is frangible at high velocity, with the frail nature of sheep, a point blank shot is acceptable. There is enough material and light enough bone structure that it will get the job done no matter what the angle. There is also sufficient expansion to 1400 yards. It is truley a long range sheep load. On the flip side, the same load would not be as good for elk or moose. The hunter needs to match the bullet to the game. Here he might switch to the 200 ACCUBOND. He might loose a bit of range due to the velocity requirments and lower BC, but he should know what the limiting range is and stick to it even if it is a closer range than his abilities afford him. The 208 AMAX might work very well on elk at 1400 yards but may be disaterous at 50 yards. Some hunter I know have two loads. One dialed in for LR (a more frail bullet) and another for closer encounters (a more solid bullet).

 

Bottom line:

 

Select the right bullet for the job. The things to concider are:

 

Size and structure of the game, bullet velocity at point blank and at long range, bullet velocity for expansion requirments. Keep it to those three factors and the rest will fall into place.

[TAM]

Ive always based this sorta thing (scopes included) on what happens if a shooter buck stands up at close distance? Just because youre prepared for a 800 yard shot, doesnt mean thats whats going to be presented.

 

I like a bullet that will hold together up close, yet open and penetrate enough at long distance.

 

My choice for that has been the Accubond, or TTSX.

 

 

In 2007 I killed a 236 pound mule deer on the Kiabab with my 270 Weatherby mag and a 130 grain Berger bullet at over 3400 FPS muzzle velocity. The buck was just 76 yards away. Even though I was expecting a much longer shot I simply turned my scope down to it's lowest setting and dumped the buck right where he stood. There wasn't even a leg twitch! The point is that often times the more rapid expanding bullets will perform well at both long and short distances where controlled expansion bullets seem to have some limitations... especially at longer distances.

 

I think the original question was what makes a good long range bullet? Very few long range shooters will even consider any of the heavy constructed bullets because their BC's are too low and because at long ranges they often times don't have the necessary energy left to properly expand the bullet.

 

Here is a link to a lab test done by Barnes Bullets that pretty much back fired on them! They were trying to show that Bergers and Ballistic Tips just explode and don't get as much penetration as the Barnes bullets and they were right! Look at how wide the wound channel is on the Bergers and BT's. Yes the Barnes will out penetrate every time (even at long distance) but look at how much more hydrostatic shock is exploding into the animals chest in the 4"-10" range (That's chunky soup in a chest cavity). Look at how narrow the wound channel is on the Barnes bullets at 1000 yards! That is exactly the opposite of what a long range hunter wants when looking for the best long range bullet!

 

http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/bullet-talk/lab-tests/

 

The proof is in the pudding and I think that's why more long range hunters choose to shoot a more rapid expanding bullet. Higher BC's and more hydrostatic shock! And like I mentioned above... They're pretty darn effective at close range as well.

 

[scoutm]

Great info/insight. Thanks for sharing.

[rcdinaz]

Yeah the Barnes test was interesting.

 

Good news is there are so many good choices now. I am pretty much shooting bergers in 7mm and 308 calibers, hard to beat the BC's and all the good results everyone is having. I know they punch through 3/8" steel plate at 750 yards like it isn't there and I don't know many animals built out of steel. I have also had good results out of Nosler and Hornady bullets.

 

On the topic of expansion that is still a tough one since where you hit the animal has as much or more to do with what the bullet does as the velocity will have. Good shoulder shots and high misses that catch spine tend to anchor animals where they are standing.